How does the Technics SL 1200 compare with....


other belt drive tables with comparable price tags? Specifically, the Music Hall
MMF 5, and the Rega p3. For arguements sake, lets say these items are all going to be placed on a three inch thick block of oak with vibrapods, and also have comparable cartridges and preamps. I really want to make a foray into vinyl, but for the life of me I just can't decide on a player. Any help would be much appreciated.
jmoog08
Johnnyb53, to add one more supporting comment: isolation is isolation. The success in isolation depends in part on controlling resonance, to keep them from drumming their way through the turntable system. The isolation required for DJ applications is in fact no different than what is required for home audiophile applications. Put a killer arm (or just use the stock EPA-120 which is already quite decent) and a killer cartridge that tracks at most at 1.75 grams, and play a record. Bang on the table the turntable is sitting on. You'll get nothing. The cartridge/arm will not move out of the groove. Now do the same for virtually any spring-suspension turntable(I know of anyway), and the arm will start jumping around like a 2 year old child with a tantrum...

So, while it is true the SL-1200MkII was introduced in 1979, the physics behind isolation have been well documented decades before that. Isolation is accomplished in part by correct rejection/damping of unwanted resonances. I doubt there is a better table out there for that than the 1200. Look at it like this: if Matsushita forked out the bucks to design the SL-1200MK2 today, I don't think they would have made it any better mechanically. The electronics may improve by integrating all the discrete circuits onto an IC, but the mechanical portion wouldn't change. If the SL-1200 was designed today, my guess is that it would sell for anywhere between $3000 and $4000, factoring in inflation, and other costs. It's amazing how this table "slid under the radar of inflation" and manages to seel for what it does. IMO, it's a gift at the asking prices. It's too bad that audiophiles don't give this table the credit it deserves. I strongly believe most of it is mere snobbism, that they cannot believe a 'DJ' product can outperform an audiophile piece.

In my experience, an SL-1200 Mk2 with a Rega arm, and a good cartridge to match, provides a superb level of "speed", neutrality (especially in the midrange), openness and transparency, all without the mushiness and over-warmth of some belt-drives.
Managing resonance for sonics and for isolation are two very different things. The Technics does very well for isolation but I question whether it is as competitive for sonics in this respect.

08-20-07: Piedpiper
Managing resonance for sonics and for isolation are two very different things. The Technics does very well for isolation but I question whether it is as competitive for sonics in this respect.

It seems to me managing resonance for isolation directly affects sonics. The two cannot be separated. If not, why bother with isolation?

Can you be more specific so I can better understand your point?
Managing resonances for sonics has to do with isolating and evacuating resonances generated internally such as those generated by the motor, by the spindle and arm bearings and by the cartridge. Managing resonances for isolation has to do with isolating the table from externally generated vibes such as footfalls and airborn and structurally transmitted musical feedback. Musical feedback also effects sonics, whereas footlfalls effect skipping and the like.

"Bang on the table the turntable is sitting on. You'll get nothing. The cartridge/arm will not move out of the groove. Now do the same for virtually any spring-suspension turntable(I know of anyway), and the arm will start jumping around like a 2 year old child with a tantrum..."

That is an example of isolation issues, possibly irrelevent or detrimental to sonic issues.

An example of prioritizing sonics is how Lloyd Walker chose to design his table using air bearing feet, the stiffnes of which was tuned by ear. This then sits on a massive wood platform, designed by ear, which then sits on sorbothane pads on a massive rack, which then gets strapped to the wall if footfalls are a problem. At each point in the continuum from table to floor, sonics are the priority. At no point does he allow issues of isolation to compromise sonics.

Incidentally, I'm not speaking authoritatively so much as theoretically. Imperical research is always king.

08-20-07: Shsohis
I'm currently using 1) Nottingham Spacedeck, VDH silver mod OL RB300 arm, Ortofon Rondo Bronze...
For about $1750, you could have a Technics SL1210 mk2 with KAB outboard PSU, Origin Live armboard, and their OL Silver tonearm. The combo would have wow and flutter around .01 to .025% and a weighted rumble figure of -78dB tops.

Would it sound the same as the Nottingham? No, but the differences would be a matter of taste and preferences. Would it sound as good? At least.