Lost on next upgrade from SME 20/2 + IV.Vi arm ...

Dear friends: It is very rare that an audio system 100K+ heavy dollars owner ask for advice and accept that it is not totally ( 100% ) happy with it and not only that but that post: +++++ "My system is posted. I'll appreciate all thoughts and comments " +++++

These facts speaks a lot of John, first than all his humility to ask and his knowledge that he can improve the quality sound reproduction and that he knows where!

I made some questions to him for to know what he wants ( what he thinks is missing ) and he posted: dynamics. So I read what is his audio system, I read many things that he posted about his system ( virtual system site ) ( that btw from here I assume that he like the Scala. Other fact that let me to assume that was that at the thread he don't mention anything about a cartridge change. ) and I read what are writing about his single audio item links in his system ( manufacturer website, professional reviews, what other owners said, etc, etc ), I made all this work for I can have the wider possible stage ( due that we are giving advise at " long distance " with out hear the system. ) and can/could give the best honest advise based on my experiences and know-how ( very similar for what a doctor/physician made with a person who has an illness, don't you think?. Well not exactly but in some ways similar. ).

I never like to give an " aspirine " for a muscular pain with out investigate first the why/where/how comes that muscular pain, many people in this and other forums are of the " aspirine " kind, I respect that but I don't agree with that approach because IMHO I think that between our own knowledge we are here trying to learn and trying to help other ones like us...

I know that it is not an easy task to say : John change your whole electronics ( 40-50K ) but IMHO ( at least that is the way I'm. ) the best way to help to another Agon's fellow is to tell him exactly and why we give our advise ( it does not matters which it is and it does not matters if that system is on the 100-500K price range ).

The John's word Dynamics told me that I have to look where in his system are loosing it and in my knowledge/experience ( and virtual investigation ) that dynamics could " suffer " through the speaker/amps interaction ( maybe room too. ) and ( like I already posted ) on the Phonolinepreamp front end links, I explain to him the whys of each approach and give him my advise.

I'm not saying that my advise is the right one no maybe it is not but what I'm saying is that I'm doing my best to help John, not with an aspirine and I respect all those " aspirine " guys.

I would like to hear from John because what he thinks is what really matters at the end he is who is living with that system or with the one up-graded.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

"what I'm after is a little more soul and dynamics"

I recently had the opportunity to listen to a full Walker front end, TT/phono/stands/PLC/Validpoints, and it really struck me as an extremely dynamic and detailed system - able to jump at you with terrific dynamics. Cart used was the Air Tight PC1. Amps were the Karan pre/power monos, speakers Utopia Nova Be. Detail was amazing to say the least, and it wasn't lean at all for a full SS system.

My own system which I thought was dynamic, wasn't even close, so I got went to figure out what was happening and tweaked the footers on my preamp, at first trying out Nordost Pulsar Points Ti, which seemed to give me back the dynamics I was missing with the SolidTech Feet of Silence. I went one further and tried out the Walker Valid Points and this REALLY put a smile on my face. They remove micro vibrations which seem to rob the system of its resolution. The music became more immediate and much more dynamic - more "soul" if you like.

Like Jfrech, I too used an Esoteric front end, which is extremely good, lots of soul too, but it just isn't in the same league as my analog source.

What I would suggest is:
1) Try the Valid Points - these aren't an arm and a leg and are easily reversible if you don't like them.
2) If you really want the ultimate in dynamics, I would strongly suggest going for a high mass TT. I've heard SMEs (all of them), and as good as they are, they cannot produce the dynamics of say a Walker. To describe what I'm referring to, I mean like the hits of the tympani in an orchestra playing at FFF. This hits you with the initial transient and has deep bass that does not smear the rest of the music. There are plenty of high mass designs, the Galibier/RedPoint/Raven come to mind. For arm choices, I think you've already listed the best there are. Its more a case of matching with the cart/TT.
3) Get the Loricraft! This should have been on your list a looong time ago. I reckon this to be akin to a component upgrade.
4) If the above still doesn't cut it for you, then go for the Dyna XV1s or the AirTight. The former is a terrific soundstager with punchy bass and loads of detail, the later is in the speed king with lots of detail. Both have excellent dynamics.

Happy hunting...

I really appreciate all the comments and help here. Raul has written a lot and he may be right in the end. Also the comments on the Walker are spot on. I may be best just saving for the next real upgrade instead of trying to do a budgeted move now.

FYI: I do have the newer SME power supply, just a old pic and yes that was a nice upgrade. Transparency and some dynamics were gained. Some nice guy wanted the old one, I got lucky and swaped with him plus $700. Nice deal for me.

I do think the Skala is underated, It is likely one small lil notch down from the XV1s, Titan i, PC-1, although is likely a price performance winner.

Larryi, you really nailed what I was after. In your first sentence.

I spent some time at my dealer in Austin yesterday. It's not a easy choice at the moment. Although if I stick with the BAT equipment, moving to a REX seems like a clear path from the 51SE. My real issue with that is shelf space (i know, why care) heat (but I have heat pouring out already what's a little more), and retubing costs (but that's once every 3-4 years).

CMK, thanks for your comments! I should try the Validpoints. I do have Cerapucs undereverything, but footers do change things. Might be a good thread for me to start comparing them! I have had 3 Lyra's in a row, lydian b, helicon and now the Skala. The Skala is a keeper, maybe I just need to try something else. Maybe a 2nd arm and a Triplaner or Graham on the SME with a XV1s or PC 1. I wish it was easier to try this at home !

I hope all keep posting, I have enjoyed all the commments suggestions, and conversation. If I make a decision, I will post it as well.

A sincere THANK YOU to all so far !

Ok after much listening, thinking, planning, fretting various options (like heat, more tubes, more shelf space) I decided on the following:

1) upgraded Purist Venastus tone arm cable to Purist Proteus Provectus (umm wow what a diff)
2) upgrading Wilson WP 8's to Maxx 2's.

I stretched my budget a bit. The Maxx 2's will make a dramatic improvement. I can't wait ! I was really close on the TW Acustic Raven and/or the REX/Aesthetix. I am sure I made the best call here. The BAT 51SE/150SE are just a killer front end and improvements can be made, but dimishing returns kick in fast I think. I just had a hard time on the Raven, even with the killer feeback/reviews, just to much to switch out the SME.

I did hear the Nagra stack in my home. VPS, PLL, VPA. It's great equipment. The Nagra VPS is killer good. Transparent, dynamic, perfect balance of warmth/detail. Amazing for 6k. Easily a top contender for best phono stage.

Again, thanks to all for commenting, if anyone want's to hear Maxx 2's, stop by soon!

Dear Jfrech: Yes the Maxx 2 will give you between other nice things: better dynamic over the 8's, congratulations!

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.