Antiskating .... The last analog secret

All this talk of setting A/S with a test record makes sense if all you do is play test records. In the real world, the proper test is what setup sounds better on records with music, and by that measure I have found that no A/S sounds best. Keep in mind that if you use A/S, it is operating at all times, not just on those loud climaxes that resemble the torture track on your test record. And, in my experience, I can always hear when the A/S is engaged, and that isn't worth the theoretical advantage of being able to track the torture track more cleanly. I say "theoretical" because I don't have any tracking problems when I play records without A/S.

I recall what Ed Villchur, the designer of the AR table, said back in the 1960's when he was asked why his arm didn't have any A/S. He said it wasn't necessary; all you had to do was set the tracking force about 10% higher and you would get the same tracking benefit as A/S.

Dave

FWIW, the methodology I posted does result in a zero antiskating setting (with our present arm and cartridge). That's where we play every day.

Other carts have produced different results however, so IME it would over-simplify to say "no antiskating". Different stylus profiles suspension behaviors can require "some" AS to avoid mistracking. Every setup is different, as is every LP.

Agree with Salectric about test records (I think we've agreed on this before!). Quite useless for real world purposes.

This whole "we don't listen to test records, so they don't matter" concept makes no sense to me. The reason I use test records is because when I listen to music, I DON'T want to think about turntable setup!! I want to know it's right, and enjoy the music . . . without mistracking.

Anti-skating adjustment is one thing that affects tracking ability, and tracking ability is the one parameter that anti-skating adjustment affects the most. Period. And if you want to know the tracking ability of your turntable setup, a test record is the fastest and most accurate way to ascertain it. Simply put, it's the correct tool for the job.

But if you're unfamiliar with how to get good results with these tools, or your tools aren't in good condition . . . then yes, a test record can be misleading. Just like if you don't know how to use a multimeter (or you have an inaccurate one), then testing 9V batteries with it may be problematic . . . but this doesn't mean that using your tongue is better!

A good multimeter is the proper instrument for testing 9V batteries, and the human tongue is the proper instrument for tasting food and drink. So for those that feel test records are useless . . . how do you think we should align tape decks? Or FM tuners? Or amplifier idle current?

I have a photo of a General Electric 2-way radio service facility from the late 1960s . . . a big sign is posted above the test benches that reads "TWIDDLERS WASTE TIME . . . AND MONEY!! FOLLOW PROPER SERVICE PROCEDURES!!" I couldn't agree more.

Kirkus, I have a couple of test records that I have no use for. If you'd like them, although it sounds like you already have them, I'd probably take $10 plus shipping.

I have never analyzed this with free body diagrams or whatever, but I'm pretty sure that the more accurately the cartridge is aligned the less those skating force magnitudes get.

As for crushing the dynamics with excessive AS, which is what the test records always lead to in my experience, to each his own. Maybe that does work with Linn. I haven't seen it work for any tonearm I've ever used.

I don't go to the extent that Doug does, but I have heard first hand at his place just how important those minute adjustments he makes are. There is no question that his method works very well. I also now how demanding Doug and Paul are when it comes to music reproduction. It is not an option for them to have a general setting and let that apply to all the records they play. Again, to each his own.

I have never analyzed this with free body diagrams or whatever, but I'm pretty sure that the more accurately the cartridge is aligned the less those skating force magnitudes get.

There's simply no way this is the case - the change in the skating force vectors is miniscule with changes in things like overhang, azimuth, and VTA. Now VTF, of course. But I absolutely agree with you in the sense that the more precisely the cartridge is aligned . . . the better the system performance, in virtually every aspect.

I have NEVER experienced a changed in the perceived dynamics when adjusting a well-designed (repeatable) anti-skating compensation mechanism, on a well-matched arm/cartridge combination. With some of the fishing-line things, I've experienced all manner of weird side-effects.

I HAVE experienced what you describe as "crushing the dynamics", but I associate this specifically with a arm/cartridge combinations with very low resonant frequencies, i.e. 6-8 Hz. I will admit that I have never really tried to tweek such a combination to sonic perfection, and I can conceive of how anti-skating adjustment could interact differently in these situations than in my experience. But I've always found that I prefer the performance of arm/cartrige combinations that resonate at somewhat higher frequencies, and tonearms with very accurate, repeatable VTF and anti-skating adjustments. And with these, my measured data the my listening experiences have a good correlation.