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tonearms with VTA-towers for true "VTAF"

Hi All,
I think the time has come to look at some more 'advanced' tone-arms that sport VTA towers. ('Old skool' is getting us not much further with this, or?))

During a lot of other, related postings it seems a good subject, I think.

Our experts, all might agree, that:

1) If you want to push the envelope for BEST possible replay, constant VTA 'adaptation' is an unavoidable matter. (nobody said madness :-)

2) I understand this means a TOP cart, inevitably with a 'most modern' type Fine-Line contact stylus, forget elliptical or can one even mention the word, spherical?

Add some TOP cantilever materials like:
- Beryllium (hard to get, as it is a very tricky material to work with i.e. very poisonous in powder form),
- Boron (which mostly has replaced the former),
- Titanium?? (was used by some of the better AT carts),
- Ruby, well some like it I hear,
- Sapphire?? (some one liked that better then Ruby, but VERY little seems about),
- Diamond (see e.g. the DV odd-ball 17D3), etc.

This should make for some VERY detailed and revealing reproduction (even in an MM cart), add to this the most revealing ingredients of a TOP LO-MC.

The end result is, that you can now here some marvellous detail (carved-outness of images, stage-depth -width, and on), B U T ONLY if your VTA is at its VERY closest to what the record was cut to! (Else you find your cart, record, arm, phono-pre, .... system sux :-)

More interesting yet, even the same vinyl brands have not always used the same cutting angles (over time). Anything from just under 20deg. to about 25deg. is what we find!

Next, these high res. styli also have each one their own preferred SRA / VTA angles, i.e. the stylus line-ridge related to the cantilever is a variable too.

Add this all up and you have a problem, particularly if you care for truly top play-back.

If you have a "VTA tower" it only seem to take 15sec. to change to the correct, previously found VTA, you do need to be organised though. If you want some know-how, Doug can tell, see also the discussion under:
"VTA setting for 'parabolic' and 'elliptical' styli"
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1244713018

There we have mentioned 3 current contenders, I quote: "Graham, VPI, TriPlanar plus a few very costly linear trackers..."

WHAT ABOUT THE: Kuzma 4Point?!

If I wouldn't like e.g.:
- multiple added connections (Graham, 7 in total?)
- wobbly Unipivots (VPI)
- too many fiddly pieces to make up the arm (TriPlanar)
- air bearings, or worse yet 'electronic' arm-feed

If I'd have an issue with these, I've no working solution to the VTAF I'd be looking for.

What say you?

Greetings,
Axel

axelwahl
pryso
1,501 posts
 
Axel, what is VTAF? I think you my have confused vertical tracking angle (VTA) and vertical tracking force (VTF). And would you call the Graham Triplanar adjustment devices towers?

Many arms incorporate a knob to adjust VTA, as opposed to one or more set screws on the arm base shaft. But not all of those allow for adjustment of VTA during play, if that is what you're asking about.

Easy examples are found with VPI arms. The JMW-9 has an adjustment dial but (I don't believe) it is recommended during playback. The JMW-10 and 12 series have a more refined adjustment gearing so allow changing VTA during playback.
larryi
1,972 posts
 
Axel,

Consider the pivot of the arm to be at the center of a circle and the stylus at a point on the circle. Now imagine a change in position of the stylus representing the change in thickness of a record. The movement could be represented by the arc on the circle and the angle between the two positions. Bigger circle (longer arm) means a smaller arc and a smaller angle change, hence less change in VTA as well. Perhaps the change between a 9-inch and 12-inch arm is not that great, but, most of the radial tracking arms are much shorter than 9 inches and I bet record thickness, and the need to adjust for changes in thickness, would be an issue with these types of arms.
viridian's avatar
viridian
4,184 posts
 
I think that the constant bashing of conical and elliptical stylii really highlights a dichotomy in our hobby. Some users are interested primarily in detail, and others primarily in tone or dynamics. Of course we all want everything, but most listeners, if forced to choose, would pick one over the other. Many of the cartridges sporting the less advanced stylii are revered for their tone. An analogy in electronics would be the Shindo, or even vintage devotees. Though your dismissive comments may be appropriate to the hierarchy that you seek, the paradigm may be quite different for other users.
axelwahl OP
788 posts
 
Hi, Pryso
>>> Axel, what is VTAF? <<<
VTA/SRA on the F = FLY, a pretty well known concept actually.

>>> ...would you call the Graham Triplanar adjustment devices towers? <<< yes, 'VTA adjustment tower' using a micrometer type spindle for fine adjustment.. ON THE FLY.

>>> ... not all of those allow for adjustment of VTA during play <<< during play = on the fly another well.., yes.

Maybe they do not all quality, which would be a little more limiting in quickly finding a VTA 'sweet spot' - but their quick up down action including a graded dial is about this here inquiry.

>>> The JMW-9 has an adjustment dial but (I don't believe) it is recommended during playback <<<
I think that was at least the idea? --- and maybe Harry doesn't mind? :-)

But as to VPI, and as mentioned above: some say they wobble too much for their liking...

Larry,
a good point you make, it sounds like Pierre Lurnés analogue thoughts revisited,
http://www.tnt-audio.com/intervis/lurne_e.html

I actually just mentioned this on the old skool tonearm thread ------- BUT, VTA is more a vertical only affair, yes?

If that is true, we'd be back with a^2 + b^2 = c^2 and the same angle alpha (enclosing A & B) over a longer C and B = a bigger A. Hm, (Trigonometry by Notepad :-)

Hello Viridian,
hey, we love those funny older 'pegs' for their music making! :-)
Where ever I put this hierarchy you refer to, it was strictly about detail retrieval and resolution, regarding their (conical et al) forgivingness compared to hyper exact VTA settings needed for those other fine-line jobs.
As you rightly point out, detail retrieval and resolution is NOT = to musicality as such.

So yes, horses for courses, but it wouldn’t change the facts about their (o) specific strength and weaknesses.
No bashing intended at all! For my own liking -- I think elliptical to be musical enough, else next we gonna argue about a more high-end kind gramophone needle.
(Can't remember that cool sounding metal some used, maybe someone can help my memory).

Many thanks,
Axel
pryso
1,501 posts
 
Hi Axel, I've only been in this hobby for 40 years and I've never heard the term VTAF, so while I agree the concept is well known, I would question how common that abbreviation might be. But no matter.

However, I do agree with the desirability of easily adjustable VTA. In fact that was a criteria in my purchase of two arms to mount with my SP-10.
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