2. analog
  3. 1261779104

TTWeights new Black Onyx Idler drive Turntable

About three weeks ago I drove to Newmarket. It is about an hours drive from Brampton, but I wanted to listen to Larry's 'Christine' turntable. When I got there I found Larry all excited about his newer turntable. A less expensive, more heavily damped version of Christine (and much less expensive). He explained to me how Christine was way overbuilt. There is no reason for a one horsepower motor, way overkill. His 1" carbide main bearing shaft was also way too much, and the shape of Chrisine's plinth did nothing for resonance control. Along comes the Black Onyx, still in R & D, so off I went back to Brampton.

I went back three weeks later, that was a couple of days ago, and with an armful of albums, sat down for a long listen. I will say that a long listen is not necessary. It took about ten seconds to realise this was something very special. Everything from Cat Stevens, Bruce Cockburn and Jeena Lodwick to Dire Straits and YES. Without fail, every single track on every album left me with goosebumps. Singers seamingly playing for me in his office did nothing for my bank account. He now has my deposit, and I wait patiently.

My turntables have all been belt drive. Many years ago I purchased a Heybrook TT2. This was commonly referred to as a baby Linn. My next table was a JA Michell GyroDec (mostly because I thought it looked wicked), and finally to the Teses 340. I will say the jump from the Michell to the Teres was only equaled by the next jump to the Black Onyx. I think I can safely say Idler Drive turntables are a wonderful idea. The Saskia is highly regarded, as is the new VPI. Both idler drive. If you can get to TTWeights for a listen, you'd be doing yourself a favor.

The rest of my system is thus; ZYX Universe cartridge, TriPlanar and Schroeder DPS tonearms, Atma-Sphere MP-1 mklll preamp, Atma-Sphere MA-1 Silver edition amps, EMM Labs CDSAse, Magnum Dynalab MD-108T tuner, and an older pair of ProAc Response 2 speakers. I sold my Coincident TVll'2 and am building speakers using Accuton mid and tweeter, with SEAS 10" woofers. Still months away.

My listening room is almost complete and should be finished about the same time as the Black Onyx. I will get back to you after that.
cousinbillyl
cousinbillyl OP
161 posts
 
Hey Oil Man

The Black Onyx is in fact a rim drive. Larry has changed the wording of his little beauty.

My Teres was not a rim drive, it was still a tape drive. It is now sold, so I hope I remember what it sounded like. Maybe I had the setup wrong, but it never produced perfect pitch, if my wording is correct. The JA Michell is not as good as the Teres was, but I remember the differences. When I finally decide on which version of the Onyx to get, I should be able to give a more exact description on my system.

I am also breaking in a few pairs of the Shuguang Treasure CV181-z, so far they are not fairing well.
hifitime
715 posts
 
No offense guys,but after looking at a picture of this drive system,I think it may be big time flawed.There is not much rubber cushion between the shaft and platter.Also,if the O rings get a little bit harder,and you know they will, vibration problems will start.You will have to keep buying fresh and soft replacements.Stocking them won't help because they will still get hard setting around.Just my 2ยข.Picture link>>[http://www.ttweights.com/idlerdriveBO.html]
kftool
104 posts
 
Hifitime,

Time will tell if this drive system will prove successful. The o rings are small and are not bonded to the drive pulley. Will they exhibit any creep as the heat up from continuous use? Would a larger drive pulley suffer from variations in the power of the drive motor size? If so , would the variation be offset by the greater rubber to the road effect by larger o rings.

I'm sure Larry took these factors into account before offering his new table. However, everything changes and never stays the same. Larry has the advantage of state of the art machines and can change his offerings at the click of a mouse.

I feel that Larry will contribute much to vinyl playback and can't wait to see how he succeeds. If I didn't invest as much as I have in Turntables I might just buy one of his tables myself.

Ken

cousinbillyl OP
161 posts
 
HiFiTime

You are absolutely correct. Larry has already informed all who look at this table that O-ring replacement will be an integral part of maintenance. This will need to be done every couple of years, or, with extensive play, even bi-yearly. This is not different from changing the tape drive on my now sold Teres, the neoprene drive of my JA Michell, or the tubes in my amp. How many of us check VTA, VTF, Anti-skating, Azimuth (all as the cartridge breaks in), levelling, cleaning of records, etc., etc., on a monthly basis.

An even bigger problem however is getting the platter out of the bearing 'before' changing the O rings. The tolerance's are sooooooo tight, that this is an execise in patience. You literally have to lift the platter, allow the air to enter and pass through the Olite sleeve, and keep lifting. I do not know how long this will be, but seconds are not the time scale used, minutes may also not be the time of this event, we are talking possibly hours. When seating the platter in the bearing, you literally have to install the recommended amount of fluid into the bearing, oil the shaft, get the bearing in place, and leave. This is not a Plug and Play table. It may be hours before the platter has seated itself. This is a design parameter I am willing to live with. From what I heard the first time I listened, I was floored. Nothing could have prepared me for that experience. Changing the O-rings, that's an excercise in passion. It may be needed/better to remove the arm, turn the table upside down, put shims under the plinth and let gravity do the work on releasing the platter, change the O-rings, and start the process over. Remember; It is not the destination, but the journey. I love playing with my stereo (though not as much as listening).

I for one am willing to go through this ritual. With the amount of time I spend retesting and matching 6SN7, 12AT7, and 12SX7 tube's (28 in total between the Atma-Sphere MP-1 and MA-1), in my amp and preamp, changing 4 O-rings on a Sunday afternoon seems not too bad. We are all excessive compulsive's. This is just another thing we get to do on a Sunday afternoon to achieve our ultimate goal; Live Music In The Home.
cousinbillyl OP
161 posts
 
Well put Ken

Larry is a mad man on a mission. He is just as big a perfectonist as the rest of us. He will read your post, probably start experimenting with larger shaft's and O-rings, and decide if it is needed. I have no doubt having been to his shop, that retrofitting these changes on an existing table will not be a difficult process.

No different then my dealings with Frank Schroeder or Chris Brady, he is a man all about customer satisfaction. I can't wait for my Platinum Onyx, and what ever else Larry has in the wings.
More to discover