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Cart not parallel after Mint LP alignment?

Howdy,

So after reading about 1000 paragraphs on how good the Mint LP Tractor is - I purchased one and had a marathon session yesterday with my new SL-1210 M5G, AT440MLa and Zupreme headshell...

After all was said and done - the alignment itself took 90 hard minutes - I am finding the cartridge sitting about 5-7 degrees "right" of center. The actual cantilever and stylus are about as dead on as I wanna go with it for now.

Now a comment and a question....

Question: Is this non-parallel result in the headshell normal? It's making me think I may have a bent cantilever or something.

Comment: I have run 10-12 sides thru the rig so far and I must say - I have not yet heard the "revelation" that others have described when comparing their alignments to other protractors or even the white Technics alignment gauge. The rig sounds good...but...what I am missing here.

I must temper the above by saying I have changed phono stages frequently in the last month as well...I was getting nicely familiar with a Bellari VP-130 and then moved that for a Cambridge which lasted less than a week and I now have a Moon LP3 with maybe 25 hours on it...Even my AT440MLa might have 40-50 hours on it as well....

I am thinking that a whole bunch of stuff might need to "burn" in before the system starts to really reveal itself.

But I am very concerned with the stylus/cantilever on the cart...even with all the moves the Mint required...I expected the cartridge to sit straight in the headshell...perhaps expecting too much?

Appreciate any feedback.

Cheers!

VP
vocalpoint
tvad
9,467 posts
 
Lewm, I don't know if Yip uses geometry different than the Technics tonearm, but he required the model of my table the arm to generate the protractor.

In any case, whatever geometry he chose made no difference to me. The protractor worked exceptionally well in my system and the improvement in sound was not subtle.

As I mentioned, the cartridge body was not parallel to the Zupreme headshell.

I'm simply offering my observation without attempting to answer why things were as they were. I really have no interest in dissecting the reasons why because the results were so good.
vocalpoint OP
10 posts
 
"Line up perfectly to what?"

To the headshell - of course. If everything is 100% true on the cart - especially cantilever to body - I should not have to tilt the cart on the shell. When the cantilever is exactly set between the nullpoints - the straight front of the cart body should be parallel to the straight front on the headshell.

And that exactly how it is for me - right up until I have to set the cantilever to the null points. The cart body is 100% straight when I set the initial "effective length". Everything looks straight - until that cantilever lineup phase...then the cart must be tilted "toe-out" to the right.

Another possibility is the Zupreme headshell itself. Not sure what Yip calls standard but I assume when he designs his tractors...he is using the standard Technics headshell to scribe those lines into the glass...not some third party shell. Perhaps the length, width or something else is playing into it?

I have been meaning to get a backup stylus anyway - so I will probably just get another 440 stylus from LP Gear. Seems to be the cheapest route and the only way to have a guaranteed new 100% parallel start point.

Cheers!

VP

Anyone comment on the "screw/nut" question...round nut or hexagon shape for best adjustment?
tvad
9,467 posts
 
04-18-10: Vocalpoint
When the cantilever is exactly set between the nullpoints - the straight front of the cart body should be parallel to the straight front on the headshell.
That's an erroneous assumption, IMO.

And that exactly how it is for me - right up until I have to set the cantilever to the null points.
It's been a while since I set up my cart with the MintLP, but as I recall, the instructions call for setting both null points first, and then setting the cantilever to parallel. Small adjustments may be required afterward, but the process is one of increasing refinement in the adjustment until both null points are hit by the stylus and the cantilever is parallel and centered between the protractor's hash marks.

The cart body is 100% straight when I set the initial "effective length". Everything looks straight - until that cantilever lineup phase...then the cart must be tilted "toe-out" to the right.
Correct. As I mentioned, whether the cart ends up parallel to the headshell is of no importance.

I assume when he designs his tractors...he is using the standard Technics headshell to scribe those lines into the glass.
This is an erroneous assumption, IMO. I'm certain if you email Yip he will verify that he does not scribe the mirror's hash lines according to the headshell.
lewm
6,770 posts
 
Dear vocalpoint, The answers to all the questions in your latest and recent previous posts are all to be found in my and Tvad's posts that went before. Please read them and think about it. The protractor does not give a rat's behind about your headshell. The position of the cartridge body will depend upon where the protractor tells you to put it. If you lined up your cantilever true to the protractor, you are done. If then there is a lack of alignment between the cartridge body and the long axis of the headshell, this has to be because the headshell offset angle, i.e., its geometry, is different from the geometry chosen by Yip for your tonearm. This more or less sums up what I have been trying to get across, in less detail. Peace. Out.
vocalpoint OP
10 posts
 
This is an erroneous assumption, IMO. I'm certain if you email Yip he will verify that he does not scribe the mirror's hash lines according to the headshell."

Tvad,

Thanks again for all the updates. I do appreciate your time. Regarding the Mint "process"...it's effective length first (ensuring the headshell "front" is exactly parallel to the cartridge head - Yip's words) and then null points...Inner first and then outer.

It's odd that you seem to think it's normal to have a slight rotation of the body when Yips actual instructions consistently remind the use that the headshell front and the cart head should remain in parallel thruout the entire procedure.

You would think he would make some mention of the fact that if it occurs "in some cases - your cartridge head may not line up with the headshell front" and say that it's okay...but he does not.

I did drop Yip a line with all my comments and questions. It will probably end up being driver error by me...or maybe I did actually bend this thing enough for it to be noticeable.

I will get it figured one way or another.

Cheers!

VP
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