A Copernican View of the Turntable System

Halcro/Lewm/Raul

You are all arguing the same points but at cross purposes.

We are measuring the groove and to measure it accurately there must be no movement between the tonearm mounting point and the platter/bearing.

Lewm's argument is simply that a rigid plinth connecting the arm and platter will minimise the risk of any differential movement.

The requirements for a nude TT approach are no different really - there must be no movement between the tonearm coupling and the platter/bearing. Placing the platter bearing on a shelf and placing the tonearm on a pod on a shelf simply means that the shelf becomes the plinth.

There are crappy plinths and there are crappy nude turntables.

Examples of crappy plinths are the Tin Sondek and the SME hollow plinth of the 60's built for the Garrard 301/401 ( they built and sold a shaker table ).
Examples of crappy nude TT's are the plethora of Garrard 301/401's running separate arm pods mounted on spongy feet that provide no rigid coupling between arm/platter.

An example of a good plinth is the Final Audio. The Final Audio has the inverted bearing/platter and gunmetal arm pod both bolted to a 40kg slab of superplastic zinc alloy that is inert - at room temperature this slab cannot be excited below 100hz, energy in this material is dissipated at a molecular level through grain sliding, it will be better than any shelf that is not of the same material.

Halcro - what category do you place the AC Raven - plinth or no plinth ? Are you going to fully nude the Raven ?

I would argue that the Record is King. That is the centre of our particular inverse.

I see that you don't believe that the energy put out by a loudspeaker can cause damaging mechanical feedback.

This is not what I said.
Air-borne feedback can be absorbed into the structure and transformed into Structure-borne feedback which is most damaging to the analogue chain.
What I am saying....is that a turntable system......properly isolated from Structure-borne feedback will not have its performance affected by Air-borne feedback.

If you claim that Air-borne feedback adversely affects the sound of the turntable.....then it MUST increase this affect with increased volume.
There are no ifs or buts or maybes.
This is a logical as well as scientific corollary.
If this corollary can not be heard......you simply have no evidence on which to substantiate your claim.
If there were any doubts left?........listening through headphones would provide untainted and fully complete information unavailable through loudspeakers at any volume?
This has not been proven to be true in my system on any occasion.

If air-borne sound transmission were an issue......a high-res direct digital transfer from a record would sound better than the actual record itself when played back through loudspeakers?
Michael Fremer has conducted many demonstrations of this with actual audiences....and the results are in fact the reverse.

....is useless to ignore something that exist and ignore it because we can't here it.

This is surprising to hear from you Raul who always insists on 'evidence' and 'science' in other audio arguments?
Can you please explain to me the difference between something NOT existing and something EXISTING.....but undetectable....as it applies to audio?

Dover,

Are you going to fully nude the Raven ?

I am fortunate to have the Raven side by side with the 'nude' Victor in order to crystallise my thoughts on this matter.

And you are correct........the 'shelf' or 'platform' upon which the turntable and armpods rest, are in fact 'a plinth' or 'base'.
And I agree......the 'base' is of utmost importance.....or rather.....the 'isolation' of the base is of fundamental importance.

Dear Dover: ++++ " the Record is King " +++++

agree, here or in other trhread I posted that but because we can't almost do nothing to modify or improve what is recorded I don't take it in count as part of the analog rig hardware , so next in line the cartridge.

regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Dear halcro: Can you hear the gravity?. Now, today many audiophiles ignore/don't use antiskating but we know is necessary even that some of us " think " the quality performance is better with out AS.

There are several distortions ( different kind 9 that surround the audio system and that are generated by the audio system but at so low level or so higher frequencies that we can't detected or at least we are unaware of it.

Take two IC cables or speaker ones or power cords, normally the better shielded likes us more and we could think because are bettter cooper or silver build material or whatever but it is more normal that are better to reject noise polulation: emi, rf and the like that exist even if we can heard it and I can say we can but we can't identify it.

Of course I'm with science.

Btw, do you already buy the Dyna 13D?

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.