A $300-$400 turntable tweak

Ct0517, well, you may read the message differently than I am but the way I see it, Halcro made a blanket statement basically saying that ring clamp is bad period, not try and see if it is better or worse with and without ring clamp.

I think I waste enough of my time here. A much more interesting thread about ring clamp, both positive and negative, is on going here on the same page anyhow.

The only idiotic comment made in this thread is Suteetat's personal attack of Halcros's observation, by characterizing it as "idiotic".

People tend to make generalized observations based on just thier own experience. This is a common thing we all do at times.
So i would not worry about calling someone out on it. Nor call them names over it.
Just chalk it up to exuberance, either for or against the issue. and get over it. we are all aware of the little flaws we can see in others , (and how hard it is to see our own!)... no need to make a big issue out of it.

Dear Suteetat: +++++ " to say that ring clamp is universally bad is just plain idiotic... " +++++

I can't argue what Halcro posted because I never had an in deep first hand experience with the ring clamps but from where you taked that Halcro said: " ring clamp is universally bad... ", I can't find it through Halcro's posts.

So maybe you had a misunderstood on the subject or perhaps when you readed Halcro's posts was not the " bets time " for you.

Btw, what do you think on this post:

" Asthetix Rhea with my ASR II Exclusive. Asthetix was terrible... "

Anyway, I think that what Halcro already brings/bringed here open or opened many interesting audio subjects about audio distortions and our each one distortions perception, sensitivity and how those distortions " appeal " to each one of us and of course all these speaks of our today system quality performance level at each one home. Even we could talk why we are willing to accept those distortions and which kind of distortions we are " accustom " the hear.

IMHO Rccc put the finger/nail where it " hurts ":

++++ Its also possible that some like a little ringing as it adds "liveliness" to the sound and can be mistaken for "air", this is sometimes true of micro phonic tubes which in some cases sound more open. " +++++

Halcro I don't have a scientific answers on the subject but IMHO could be interesting to " explore " what RCCC posted because that " point " not only is speaking of our each one preferences but speaks too about our each one Audio System Limitations Factor Level.

IMHO this ASLFL is critical to each one opinion on audio subjects comparisons and in this " way " what you like or what Suteetat or RCCC or me depend on that ASLFL.

I had and have frist hand experiences with vacuum hold down TT systems and I heard ring clamps in other systems and obviously experiences with out those " system clamps ".

IMHO each one has its own trade-offs and certainly we will like the one that match our each one trade-offs that we are willing to accept ( because nothing is perfect. ).

Now, which is the best one? wich is right?, well from an objective point of view I don't have the answer because I don't know any " model/scientific model " that can tell me or predict in precise way which is better " universatility ".
So I have to return to that ASLFL that has a high subjective " weight ".

This Halcro thread gives me a reason to try again in my system the vaccum hold down " system " that I don't use it for several months maybe years and I will look with some of my audio friends where I can have a ring clamp to test it too.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Any system that I have heard with one of these being used I have always preferred listening without, most not all owners I know have actually gotten rid of theirs at some point.

That's what makes it so interesting in this whole journey of ours but still it's just an opinion that we share, some agree and some don't and that's okay.

As long as you are enjoying listening to your music, that's really all that matters right.

Enjoy!