Turntable advice-thorens questions

Agreed F, the new Thorens company is just trading on the name, sad indeed.

And give Sheila my best if you speak with her. VPI customer support is truly fantastic. And I did not comment on the HW19 MKIV as I have no experience with it, but the MKI through have not been supported for many years. Interestingly, there used to be a statement to that effect in their FAQ but it is no longer there.

Agreed the new Thorens are just marketing and fluff - new company riding an old name, nothing worth buying. But I would take any well done vintage Td125 or Td124 (or LP12) over the blah VPI HW19. VPI's in my experience are showy commercial main stream hi-end over hyped and not one bit musical in the least - waaaayy over rated shoddy built (mostly) tables. Its one of those always well reviewed comm. mfg. seen all over the mags but you know its just for people who dont know any better so they buy mainly based on mag reviews, rec. component lists and press. They kinda remind me of like Def. Tech speakers or the like, always great reviews and shiny mag. ads but in reality don't sound good and much better available out there. ymmv.

Jeremy, regrettably, I can't share your take on VPIs. I own the Classic (w/ Classic 3 arm), The da*n thing is built like a tank. Put treads, a 125mm cannon on it and voila, it's an Abrams main battle tank.

The main platter weighs 18 lbs and the motor is firmly attached to the plinth. No vibrations that I can detect. Customer support is 120%.

My problem is with the design of the unstabilized uni-pivot arm. It's a bitch to set up (mostly azimuth) and a bitch to get some cartridges to work. See my threads on this issue. HOWEVER, once set up is done and once you get a cartridge that works, the da*n thing sings. And, since I've screwed around with the set up so much now, I can do it in my sleep.

One day, I may try slapping on a used Graham arm to see what happens. But that's tomorrow's project. IMHO FWIW!

The Classic might be the best sounding VPI ever made and might even be the best honestly built they've made too, especially for the money. But, we were not talking about the Classic which has only been around a short while anyway. Long history of that commercial hifi company making not so well built and very mediocre sounding tables. More power to them for selling so many of these things, after all people are in business to sell and make a profit but again imo and ime VPI are fair to mediocre at best all the way around. For musicality I'd take a restored and plinthed TD125 or restored LP12 over 98% of the tables VPi has ever made, regardless of how heavy the darn platters are. ymmv

Does it really take 25 years to figure out that a metal platter sounds better than a plastic platter?