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Vinyl. Is it me? the producer? cartridge? Record?

It's no surprise that some recordings sound significantly different than others. Different studios, engineers, musicians, arrangers and instrumentation.

I probably have over 1000 albums ranging from 50's jazz, 60's folk, jazz, rock, psychedelic, classical etc.. and I can probably find certain recordings that sound fantastic on my system from any genre. Others not so good.

I am running a Music Hall 5.2 Goldring 1012GX, Scott 340B Vintage Tube amp, Silver stranded cables, Custom Klipsch that would basically be similar to Forte 2, with a 15" self powered sub.

I enjoy the the treasure hunt vinyl offers. It's great when I find an album that:

1: I like the music
2: The album was properly recorded
3: It's a nice clean copy

Of the 1000 records, I probably have 30 real standout recordings that really shine on all levels. It's great to find them.

While I can still enjoy less than perfect recordings if I like the music, it's still much better to have the whole enchilada experience, especially when sharing my system with guests, friends, family etc.

While I have read some who feel the Goldring is a bit shrill or harsh at times, I tend to put the blame more on the session engineer for adding high EQ to the recording or not recording the lower frequencies properly.

If all my records sounded harsh I would blame the cartridge, or some other aspect, tubes, tonearm etc.. but this is not the case. Some recordings simply sound correct, and I would not want them any other way.

At times I feel some of the lesser quality recordings would sound better on a different kind of set up. Probably a system with a much more colored low end, with the higher frequencies rolled off quite a bit. But on the downside, the really good recordings I have would suffer tremendously.

Do some of you feel the need for two systems where you might say "these recordings sound best over here, and these ones are best played on this other set up?"

One thing for sure is that anytime I have both a vinyl and CD version to compare... vinyl wins hands down every time..unless it's one of these new vinyls that was cut from a digital source. (they can't fool me)

Thoughts anyone?
astralography
minkwelder
191 posts
 
Just one short year ago, I was having the exact same problems with my system that you speak of, Astralography. I too was listening to a lot of Steely Dan and various jazz records because it was the only stuff I could stand to listen to. In my case, the solution came down to speaker placement (Magnepans) and my preamp. The later addition of a subwoofer added another dimension, but was not the primary leap forward.

I had been through several different preamps (McIntosh, Rotel, Van Alstine, etc.) but then on a whim, I bought a used Luxman CX-100. For whatever reason, it just has a unique synergy with my Musical Design D-140. The phono section seems to be a perfect match with my Denon DL-160, and even CD's now have a musicality that they lacked before.

Don't get me wrong; there are still pressings that sound horrible, but I have totally reversed the ratio of good to bad sounding recordings, and I now enjoy most of what I listen to.

It may take only small changes in your system, but I do believe it's possible at all price levels to do so.

The best part is that I can now listen to music and enjoy it without picking everything apart. As a musician, I thought I would never be able to do that.
astralography OP
51 posts
 
I think any ear fatigue I get comes from the higher frequencies, not from the low end within reason.

A crisp high end seems to really bring properly recorded records to a new level and really allows them to shine.

But I do suspect high EQ was added into a lot of recordings..

I agree with Jimmy Page that if you record things properly you don't ever need to add EQ. I've seen a lot of boards in recording studios mixing records with those EQ's rolled clockwise on the high end during a mixdown for any number of reasons.

I don't hear that at all with Zeppelin, Steely Dan, or Jazz records like MF Horn 1, 2, 3... or Miles albums from the late 60's early 70's.

I don't hear it on DSOTM or Crime of the Century, but I do hear it on a lot of other records.

I have a Low Fi system downstairs with a $50 Shure Cartridge that makes these thinner recordings sound much more rounded and easier on the ears over time, but if I put on a properly recorded album it sounds nowhere near as good as my better set up upstairs.... not even close.

I know the Goldring has a reputation for being a bit screechy.. but I feel it is actually a very honest cartridge because it does bring out the shine in the better recordings.

I've heard peoples systems that have that really low boomy tubey sound that rounds everything out and gives it this smokey bar jukebox vibe, and I can dig that for what it is.. but I really prefer more detail in my listening.. not just like a smooth scotch and Cuban.
minkwelder
191 posts
 
Mmmmm, smooth scotch and Cubans...but don't forget the "fine Columbian"!

I know it seems impossible that certain records sound great when others sound so bad, but that's right where I was.

I even did the lo-fi "rock" system downstairs for the disappointing records. It was not a satisfactory solution, though. Some may argue that my main system is lo-fi, but I found the synergy, and that's the key. I'm sure there's nothing magical about my Luxman; it just "fit".

What I love about the DL-160 is that it has the analytical qualities of a MC cart with a richness that I don't usually associate with a MC...and the Luxman made it come alive. Now I'd like to try my V15vMxr again to see how the Luxman likes it.

My gut feeling is that your speakers (either by design or placement), or your cartridge may be the weak link . Try bringing your "lo-fi" speakers upstairs. Not that you want them to be permanent; just to see what sort of difference they make. Then put everything back the way it was and swap out the Goldring for the Shure. By swapping different pieces into your system one at a time, and trying different speaker placement, you will more clearly see which direction makes the most sense.

You WILL get to the point where 90% of your records sound great. I gare-on-TEE!!





astralography OP
51 posts
 
Good points...

I would love to just have a stack or different cartridges to swap out within seconds and listen to a variety of recordings doing so. A Goldring, a Grado, a Shure, and so on.. would be great to be able to do that with speakers as well.

As far as speakers, I simply have yet to hear a pair that reproduces horn instruments as well as speakers with horn drivers. Right now I am listening to Gerry Mulligan "Age of Steam" on the low fi rig. It's ok... but a universe apart from what it sounds like upstairs.

I'm running a Fisher 100 tube amp with the built in pre amp and a pair of Klipsch KG 5.2 which I like a lot. I also prefer the passive 12 woofer sound as I believe I am getting more honest detail compared to a power driven woofer. The deck is nothing fancy, just a Technics SL 210
with a Stanton. It's just a fill in record player while my Music Hall is in the shop. Good records sound average, bad records sound average. Really doesn't tell me much of anything.
geoch's avatar
geoch
354 posts
 
Try to audition the new 3T series interconnects from VDH (model depending of your buget). Then match them with the "Inspiration" speaker cable (because the 3T "Cloud" is really expensive). The flow, integration and conformity they can bring to any system are phenomenal. (I really mean ANY! system, of whatever it's origin!). I have the "Cliff" from phonostage to preamp, the "Mountain" from pre to power amp and yesterday I've change the (fusion series) "Integration" for the (3T series) "Cloud". The new coaxials in the 3T series are cheap and effective. Please give them a try!
I suppose you've allready done with the tube rolling.
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