Dear Al: Thank's for the link, I already read it in the past. Ralph is one of the designers I have in high respect.
I know that only a few speaker designers made or make their designs to achieve high quality performance with out taking in count electronics/restrictions to handle it. I'm not a speaker designer but if I was one that's the way I will make my designs. Then if that design at the end needs SS electronics or tube ones this fact was only a result of the speaker self design and not because was oriented to this or that kind of electronics.
Al, for me the main differences between audio systems quality performance level are each one audio system: colorations and distortion levels and how it handle these distortions.
For almost everyone but me what we like is not the main subject when we evaluate an audio system quality level performance.
I know as I think you know too that we can like music through full colored audio systems but for me that's means almost nothing.
What have sense to me and what I already experienced is that always that I heard a " distortion free " audio system I always like it and any one like it too.
I almost always like it my system even when was full of colorations/distortions but through the years I learn and understand the specific weight that have those distortions/colorations in any quality level system performance so I worked about and I'm still working to achieve that elusive target " distortion free " system.
Each time distortions goes lower each time the system let me hear more music more " what's in the recording " and higher enjoyment.
I learned to have not my ears equalized to my system but to be aware on different level of distotions ( different kind. ) and not only in my system but in other audio systems.
Obviously is not enough to have a " distortion free " system but a well designed one. A well designed one/distortion free system IMHO always will sounds great and likes any one and not depend what we like or which one are our priorities.
If that well designed and distortion free system does not like us could be not because the system but because that's what is in the recordings.
IMHO a well designed and distortion free system is always faithful to the recording.
I don't care about each one subjectivity because audio subjectivity is always the " easy " way to finish a dialogue like this one when arguments from one side " disappear ".
What kind of subjectivity am I talking about?, something like this one:
+++++ " Any audiophile will agree that the most valuable thing they have with respect to their audio system is their own hearing. " ++++++
or what you already posted:
+++ W if you move that's what has importance " +++
or what other people post about frequently:
++++ " this is what I like... " +++++
and my main subject is not what I, you are any one else likes but what's wrong or not.
The speaker/amplifier electrical impedance match is only one of the critical issues why we can't achieve a " near perfect " quality performance in our each one audio systems.
Colorations and distortions means differences in frequency response, noise level and any kind of deviations for neutrality, means differences on tonal balance and means non-accurate system response.
Why almost all of us take care on room/system interaction, why we take care on room contioning?, certainly to achieve near neutral performance with a better tonal balance and more accurate performance.
If we analize the relationship between the different links in the audio system chain we can see that are at least two critical relationships that almost no one cares about:
phonolinestage output impedance and amplifier output impedance.
We all care about almost all other link's relationship ( matchin in between. ): cartridges and Suts, cartridges and phono stages, cartridge and tonearms, cables and length of those cables, etc, etc.
Well electrical impedance match between speakers and amplifiers has ( at least ) IMHO a critical importance that if we don't care about we can't achieve a better quality perfromance level and not only this but we can't know for sure which one is the " true " quality performance level of each one audio system.
For me the name of the game in our high end audio is: accuracy and neutrality that means: low colorations and low distortions.
Another example on how achieve a lowest distortions in almost any audio system is the topic that Learsfool " touch it ": subwoofers, I agree with him that acoustic music other than organs perhaps does not needs a sub but we have to think in what we heard through each one system where we listen trhough speakers that always have compromises and one of these compromise is the IMD that the speaker drivers generate.
IMHO, almost any audio system benefits and improves its quality level perfromance when the main speakers goes lower in its IMD value/response.
This lower speaker IMD is something that even a " deaf " man could hear, I'm not talking here about " numbers " but a simple fact: lower speaker IMD.
Here we can read something about:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117893153&openflup&27&4#27
Anyway, I know that my overall targets are different from other people ones but my best hope is that sooner or later you and other people take concience and action on what you and me are talking through our posts in this thread.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
I know that only a few speaker designers made or make their designs to achieve high quality performance with out taking in count electronics/restrictions to handle it. I'm not a speaker designer but if I was one that's the way I will make my designs. Then if that design at the end needs SS electronics or tube ones this fact was only a result of the speaker self design and not because was oriented to this or that kind of electronics.
Al, for me the main differences between audio systems quality performance level are each one audio system: colorations and distortion levels and how it handle these distortions.
For almost everyone but me what we like is not the main subject when we evaluate an audio system quality level performance.
I know as I think you know too that we can like music through full colored audio systems but for me that's means almost nothing.
What have sense to me and what I already experienced is that always that I heard a " distortion free " audio system I always like it and any one like it too.
I almost always like it my system even when was full of colorations/distortions but through the years I learn and understand the specific weight that have those distortions/colorations in any quality level system performance so I worked about and I'm still working to achieve that elusive target " distortion free " system.
Each time distortions goes lower each time the system let me hear more music more " what's in the recording " and higher enjoyment.
I learned to have not my ears equalized to my system but to be aware on different level of distotions ( different kind. ) and not only in my system but in other audio systems.
Obviously is not enough to have a " distortion free " system but a well designed one. A well designed one/distortion free system IMHO always will sounds great and likes any one and not depend what we like or which one are our priorities.
If that well designed and distortion free system does not like us could be not because the system but because that's what is in the recordings.
IMHO a well designed and distortion free system is always faithful to the recording.
I don't care about each one subjectivity because audio subjectivity is always the " easy " way to finish a dialogue like this one when arguments from one side " disappear ".
What kind of subjectivity am I talking about?, something like this one:
+++++ " Any audiophile will agree that the most valuable thing they have with respect to their audio system is their own hearing. " ++++++
or what you already posted:
+++ W if you move that's what has importance " +++
or what other people post about frequently:
++++ " this is what I like... " +++++
and my main subject is not what I, you are any one else likes but what's wrong or not.
The speaker/amplifier electrical impedance match is only one of the critical issues why we can't achieve a " near perfect " quality performance in our each one audio systems.
Colorations and distortions means differences in frequency response, noise level and any kind of deviations for neutrality, means differences on tonal balance and means non-accurate system response.
Why almost all of us take care on room/system interaction, why we take care on room contioning?, certainly to achieve near neutral performance with a better tonal balance and more accurate performance.
If we analize the relationship between the different links in the audio system chain we can see that are at least two critical relationships that almost no one cares about:
phonolinestage output impedance and amplifier output impedance.
We all care about almost all other link's relationship ( matchin in between. ): cartridges and Suts, cartridges and phono stages, cartridge and tonearms, cables and length of those cables, etc, etc.
Well electrical impedance match between speakers and amplifiers has ( at least ) IMHO a critical importance that if we don't care about we can't achieve a better quality perfromance level and not only this but we can't know for sure which one is the " true " quality performance level of each one audio system.
For me the name of the game in our high end audio is: accuracy and neutrality that means: low colorations and low distortions.
Another example on how achieve a lowest distortions in almost any audio system is the topic that Learsfool " touch it ": subwoofers, I agree with him that acoustic music other than organs perhaps does not needs a sub but we have to think in what we heard through each one system where we listen trhough speakers that always have compromises and one of these compromise is the IMD that the speaker drivers generate.
IMHO, almost any audio system benefits and improves its quality level perfromance when the main speakers goes lower in its IMD value/response.
This lower speaker IMD is something that even a " deaf " man could hear, I'm not talking here about " numbers " but a simple fact: lower speaker IMD.
Here we can read something about:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117893153&openflup&27&4#27
Anyway, I know that my overall targets are different from other people ones but my best hope is that sooner or later you and other people take concience and action on what you and me are talking through our posts in this thread.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R.