Micro Seiki, or TW AC-1

We all like to have our choices validated in internet forums but my take on all this is that there is no such thing as a perfect isolated product and it's all about the SYSTEM and YOUR ears. This is especially true with turntables which are ultimately a set of compomises designed into a final solution. A deck is also inextricably bound to an arm and a cartridge and in my experience they will all effect the perceived character of eachother when teamed together. There is no 100% neutral reference arm/cart combination to use as a constant in turntable comparisons and even if they was you can bet one deck would show more synergy to it than the other !

In any event, one mans 'leading edge enhancement' (through perhaps a gimballed arm, SS phonostage and amplification and a set of Wilsons) is another man's 'perfection' (when piped into say valve electronics, a unipivot and a set of electrostatics). Some people chase the ultimate in neutraliy, others actually want a little more colour and density engineered into the sound. Why ? because to some people's ears it makes the system more enjoyable and for those people enjoyment is paramount rather than hoisting a flag at the very top of the mountain named "fidelity".

I have not heard an MS but I don't doubt that it's a very fine tt, also up there with the best 1% of decks in the world. I would also like to bet though that it too has shortcomings, colourations or an assortment of strengths and weaknesses as well as a synergy for certain arms, carts and electronics and a equal and opposing dislike of others. The point here is that any bitching, nitpicking and fervent cruscades at this level are surely just politically or financially motivated. Choices at this lofty position are in my opinion much more to do with brand idenitity, perceived desireability and quality, dealer and importer support, longevity, ease of setup, maintenance, engineering prowess and of course - the big one - LOOKS. Every deck has shortcomings and these should always be either embraced or negated with the system setup, the system chain and room acoustics.

My advice to OP is to try and listen to both decks in the context of your own system and then decide yourself.

Dear Lotus340r: Nice post. Why I can't see analog rig on your Agon virtual system?, just curiosity.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

For what it's worth, Minus K does lift the performance of TW up quite a bit. Quite a step up from Symposium Ultra for sure but also at 3-4x the price.

Lotus340r, absolutely true what you are saying. Of course it is a different issue for the beginner, the mid term fidelty guy or the one who already has arrived in heaven. the first group is just feeling a bit unsecure dealing with all the different opinions & special advises ending up usally in dealer or brand oriented hands. The later species you can differentiate in the ones not doing anything at their system since 10-15 years or longer and the specialists finding & working on tiny improvement issues. Both are usally engaging more on platforms than listening to their music. How should it work listening to music when your sitting 8 hours the day in front of your computer and serving 5-8 audio platforms and maybe 40-80 threads (extreme!).

Anyhow the mid term fidelity guy might be the happiest man as he is not really political, not running a church approach and only sometimes relying on brand authority. All enjoy the insight into sometimes complex topics. It's good that we have all groups and without our 'platform-guys' we would not have that kind of exchange.

In a world full of business interests we will be not able retreating only to theoretical exchanges. It is also about products, here about Micro Seikis and TW Acoustic. The MS-problem is that they are no longer in production (comparable to EMT and others). But there is a community loving these units and some are trying to improve and sell. In the case of TW there is a company and sales forces behind it trying to raise interest in the products and there is also a community of afficinados. If I would run an audio company I would be interested in good reviews, good consumer base and good feedback. Nothing bad about this.

You are right the problem is people do not listen to the units in their own chains rather relying on 2nd or 3rd hand opinions, which is okay for getting a basic opinion. Maybe we have changed over the years, too. 20 years ago we would not have invested 20k or more into one turntable without having compared it with the contenders. Hopefully this thread helps also to motivate folks doing (!) the listening and find out what is best for them.

hi Rauliruegas, apologies, I have never gotten arround to posting a system but have just done it and posted on the forums.