Brinkmann vs TW Acustic

Wrm57,

Insults start whenever certain members start insulting other members and make claims to be better than others etc. Any discussion with humble origins and without ego would go much further. I can go and quote what was said but just go above and read it. If I didn't like a product my statement would be simple, I have had very positive experience with XYZ and I prefer that. I think that is much better than going forward and saying that all so & so people have no idea what they are listening to and don't know good sound etc. I have had some bad luck with certain brands in my life. I have owned several high end watches. Some with extreme complications. Yet, some of the "best" brands have failed and even after repair they failed again. But I know several happy people owning the same item. I don't bad mouth the watch. I take it as everyone can have a negative experience. I was unlucky. But since I had a watch that failed, I should tel everyone to stay away from it and that they would be making a mistake to ever buy one? I just don't get it. This is a forum. Yes you can say what you want. But how it is said is extremely important.

And if you are on record already saying your opinion several times in a negative & derogatory way to both the brand and other owners and you persist on doing so I do have a problem. You obviously have an axe to grind. At that point loyal and happy customers will show their support. It is kind of the same as Wilson bashing which went on for years and continues. They are probably at the top in sales of speakers in their respective price ranges. Of course there are different speakers out there that some might prefer. But people bash them and others defend them. But no one does it the way certain members do it in regards to TW.

I think it's all just based on how things are said. One poster starts a thread or response about the incompetence of the design or designer, and that transfers directly to the incompetence of the owner/listener of that product.

Bottom line is this - If you are completely satisfied with your system/component/new purchase, you won't let a negative post affect how you feel about your gear. Only those who are self-doubters or who aren't in bliss with their sound, will take great offense.

Until things are measured/validated scientifically, this is all opinion - based issues and statements anyway. For example, I find it laughable that we uniformly accept the Sutherland Timeline as the gold standard for speed accuracy and stability measuring. How do we know that every Timeline from the factory is calibrated accurately? How do you prove it? Who knows?

I for one am super happy with my TW table. And I certainly don't let anything affect that status except my own ears.

Les keep the discussions on this board lively and informative. But take nothing personally!

Philb,Well said your on the money.Thanks.

Dgad,

I not bashing just asking questions for clarification, I don't see anything wrong with that.

I'll gladly answer yours, see below;

1- I don't know what MBL has to say about pairing my such up with my VAC 450 Statement amps, best you ask them. The rest of your babble in relation to this is just that, showing a lack of experience. You can put the question forth to Ralph of Atma-Sphere whom will educate you in the fact MBL's once loaded in a room aren't that hard to drive. You can also speaker with Ken Steven's of CAT whom built his 100 watt tube mono blocks around MBL's.

2- I purchased my table from a TW dealer, I was the first consumer to own it. I also purchased a 10.5 arm from a dealer, again first consumer to own.

3- Minus K optimized, wow! you really have no clue because you would never make statements or ask such.

4- Your last paragraph is just stupid, why is it TW fan boys all seem to be so defensive including your self as I'm reading and BS. I'm not a MS group guy, don't care about Syntax and TW issues, that's between them. I don't have an axe to grind and nothing against Jeff or Thomas. I'm sharing my experience as you and others do and just asking questions in relation to TW product as a whole so kindly answer.

Now I have some questions;

My first question;

1- Simply answer my questions put forth in my above posting or are you afraid for some reason.

2- You asked me so I'll ask you, who did you buy your TW tables from? My understanding is that you have a history of trading watches for product, is that true? because there is a story's going around.

Dear friends: If we take any TT to " disect " it we will find out all its defects/faults and its virtues and if we can go deeper on our research we could find out some other unknow virtues/faults of the item.

Here the unsatisfied TW owners posting no single TT virtue but only its faults.
Why is this?, makes no sense to me not be aware of one TW virtue and post it even that I don't like the item.

In the other side:

+++++ " without knowing anything... rpm 33.333334 or 33.333333 when the Timeline drifts the difference is MUCH higher... lousy Pulleys...none of you seems to have an idea what that means ... internal damping ..also no idea from all of you except Dev ... belt quality...and so on and on and on " +++++

Seems to me that for some of you everything is: before the Timeline and after the Timeline and IMHO this is an error.

To those TT owners where they can change trhough a pitch control the TT speed try to have this experience:

first time in the morning make a tiny/small change on speed turning the pitch TT control and for one week listen to that same speed and at the end of the week ask you if you are unsatisfied or not with what you are listening it.
Then return to the original ( Timeline based. ) speed and after 30 minutes ask your self if you like it more on this way or with that tiny speed change.

You will be surprised on your answer. Please don't try to attack at this moment this " experience/test " but after you did it.
Btw, it is not important if that tiny speed change was for lower or faster speed.

Now, on this speed subject: Lewm pointed out that we don't know if during the LP overall recording process the LP was cutted at 33.3333333 rpm or at 33.33 rpm or what ever so: how any one of us can comes here to say that because a TT did not pass the Timeline test we are hearing something " different " and not only different but something that dislike the more because of that speed deviation?.

I think we can't do it what we can do it is that there is no excuse for a 20K+ TT not fit accurate and stable speed and from this point of view seems to me that the TW is a faulty design because it does not match " perfect speed ".

At that and up TT price level any TT has to be " near perfect " in all main TT characteristics that have influence on the generated sound under any circumstance during playback. We can't ask for less.

Syntax posted: " none of you have an idea what that means " in reference on some TT characterisitcs and that could be true with some of us but we are only customers not TT designers to know everything about. We have to judge n audio item as " listeners ".

Even he does not know everything about and that's why he owns what he owns on all his system items and that's why he is a system " changer " over the time: from SS to tubes and again to SS and the like with his cartridges and tonearms, as I said over his system.

Ebm, don't assume that Syntax knows everything because he pictured in his system two Olympos boxes, money means nothing but kin owledge level, skills and how any one use that knowledge/skills.

Yes, thye TW designers has a land to improve their design but this is true with almost any other audio item. We customers are in " motion " looking always for the best, so we are asking every day for the best for all audio item manufacturers.

Btw, I'm sure of something about TW: if the desig n is so bad as the unsatisfied owners pointed out sooner or latter will disappear from the market if don't fixed before.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.