Sakura Systems OTA Cable Kit

Asa: The reason I addressed you the first time, whenever that was is that I felt you were here to patronize and not to bring a constructive contribution on the very subject of the topic. This you have proved yourself to be true beyond any reasonable doubt. We could have discussed NBS, we could have discussed Kondo (for which I have great respect btw) but we never could discuss OTA for a simple reason of you not having a clue of the product and that was the topic (to which I have tried to remind you on several ocassions). And, you wanted me to give you arguments against your hallucination (dunno what else could it be...). No way. So you got insulted... As I was when you first started name calling with " Sead don't be horse's ass". You may have selective memory but you were the one who started with insults and I certainly hope my provocations were never as hillbillish as you indeed acted. And, yes, I knew about your involvement with NBS from the beginning but I didn't feel like discrediting you. This may be a personal thing for you, but then, you must have seen too many gladiator movies... Audio is a hobby for me, more than anything else. Rational people don't kill each other over a hobby.
My intention was never to leave such a deep mark on your emotions.... Scares me even to think of what would happen if I was seriously attacking you and not kidding with you.... Btw, out of the personal interest, if I would ask you to send me one of your novels to read it, would you? I guess you would not. See, that is where we differ... Besides, of course, that I like to joke and you don't. I wish you prove me wrong on the last two assumptions.
Ah, I kinda find that "Er, cheers" cute.

Bwhite: Yes, sadly, I knew you would get insulted with my last post. Unfortunately. This has become a vanity fair, otherwise you would read my post in different eyes (maybe your own, for a change?) and not come with yet more sarcasm toward Ivo ("Who is he?"..... well, who are you for that matter, who is anyone?). Again, I tell you and you may call it deffensive from my side, it is perfecly great thing that you find your cabling arrangement suits better your setup than OTA, which was originally designed and intended for 47Labs setup and it comes as a surprise to me, believe it or not, that it works in other setups at all.

To clear something out: My involvement with 47Labs as their European distributor was always very open and clear, althought my posting here is of a strictly private nature, and to stop you wondering about my interest in the subject, I will openly call upon everyone who has bought OTA cable in Europe as a consequence of this thread to stand up and say it loud. If anyone, except for Ivo (who was using OTA before either one of you in here knew it existed) and Slawney (who was sold PhonoCube in agreement with local dealer but supplied directly by myself for reasons beyond your interest, but quite benign) shows up, that will really be a proof of my interest in this thread other than a personal, plain audiophile joe interest to help out with some experience on topic called by someone else. If there will be nobody to say it, I will kindly ask you to stop with this dealer crap. This forum is dominantly an US affair and my affiliation with 47Labs stops on the shores of Atlantic as I am not at all involved with 47Labs operations in US of A. Or, if I have even oferred to sell anything to anyone who has participated to this thread up to this point, please say it loud and clear, otherwise shut up. I don't sell things here, I don't buy things here.... So, please, what my interest in Audiogon or in anyone in here liking OTA or not could be other than a simple passtime? Good thing is summer is coming and I will be playing tennis much more than wasting time on the net....

Of course, I am very much interested that 47Labs customers in Europe are pleased with their products and our dealers but that kind of correspondence I would never allow to become a public affair unless clients themselves feels like disclosing it. Customer support of Konus Audio Systems is something entirely different. The fact that Sead Lejlic as a private person discusses music, audio and yes, 47Labs things with people that are not even potentially customers from Europe obviously has a confusing effect on a $$$ orriented mind. Surprisingly, there are cultures in the world which are less materialistic oriented than yours and where not just about everyone you talk to is trying to sell you something and where you don't have to make appointment to your wife and your friends for some "social interference".

Slawney: No need to get cought into crossfire non-productive (except for lingual exhibitions) argues. Perhaps you are right, in real life we probably would all get fine together over a pint of lager but people get matchbox flammable on the net. Nothing new. I just enjoy exploring this aspect of human behaviour (well, Asa may be brilliant in his English usage but certainly is a dilletant in psychology, plain boring to argue with and I hope getting along with him is more fun?). :-)

Cheers,
Sead

p.s. If a further desire exists to continue with the pissing contest of a personal nature, you are welcome but in the next two, three weeks I will be away. Besides, it is boring....

Asa, re.: "what misguided probability analysis led you to the conclusion that "push" should be excised from its context for your suddenly literal purposes?" Two questions: 1.) What diacritical marks in the 04-25-02 post to Bwhite indicate that your post should be considered "rather playful"? Is it the "ahh" at the beginning? Emotives like this depend on intonation: I can easily imagine an "ahh" as a sign of relief, or a sign of frustration. Electronic writing alone does not let me know what kind of "ahh" this is. Perhaps we need to load up sound-files under our posts:-) But seriously, for someone who was not privy to your correspondence with Bwhite, what marks indicate that your message is merely humorous? Second question: 2.) What meaning would a non-literal reading of the word "push" give? Third question: 3.) how much of the 04-25-02 post is "playful"? Are we to interpret the statement "Glad you still like the KSL/NBS combo" as playful, and the concluding lines "Thank you, bwhite, and all of the others, for putting in the time with the OTA and letting us know about your experiences"--as just a jest?

I am not going to pick up the "discussion" between you and sead. You are correct to put the word "discussion" in quotes: it was not a discussion. I just reread the exchange (let us call it that). You are right to say that "sead refused (your) inquiry as to what was the basis of his negative blanket characterizations of (your) fully laid out arguments" He did however state his reason for not responding. I am not going to pick up this exchange, for a few reasons: 1.) it was not my "discussion"; 2.) it was not really a "discussion"; 3.) I do not know what sead would have said in response to your inquiry. Thus, forgive me, but I cannot "take up sead's banner" or be "sead's foil." I do not know what "sead's banner" really is, or if he has one. Besides, as I already said, I am trying not to defend him. He should answer for himself, if he wants to. I cannot put words in his mouth. And, I repeat, I am not responsible for his words.

The passage that you addressed to me back on 10-31-01 that I like to recall in its entirety is the following:

"What I think is being missed here in a NBS Statement (your series 1, right Slawney?)and Sakura comparison (assumably IC's)is the synergy issue between IC's and spkr cable. NBS IC's are superior IMHO to their spkr cable - and many other speaker cables match well to their IC's sans their spkr cables. I look at NBS as an interjector of a certain nuance in harmonic complexity (deep into the harmonic fabric) and spatial realism (at the shallower levels of listening, in how sound waves move in space; symmetrical and continuous and with proper projection qualities) and at the deepest levels existentially (the deep intuitive grasp that the "event" of musical connection between mind and music is not cut by a soundfield that lacks a intuition of dimension). In the most advanced systems, these are the qualities that one is still after and a component that accomplishes it should not be relegated based on an immediate reaction to "speed', "detail", and the thrill of dynamic swing and contrast that are predomonantly appreciated at less deep levels of listening (which doesn't mean that they aren't important, just that they can get in the way if over-emphasized in relative value). " (end quote)

I agree completely that NBS speaker cables are not as good as their ICs. Having owned and/or used four different types of NBS speaker cable/IC combinations, the IC was always more impressive than the speaker cable (even at the Statement level). I do not know if there is a synergy between NBS Statement IC and OTA speaker cable like there is between NBS and AN Kondo, but I am eager to find out. In my eagerness to replace all of my NBS cables with OTA, I did not try out too many hybrid arrangments. This was because of 1.) my initial excitement with OTA (esp. in the phono cable application, which was a total success, after the RFI problem was solved), 2.) the eagerness to hear an entirely OTA cable infrastructure (the effect of the cable is additive), 3.) the perceived sonic difference between NBS and OTA, which led me to believe that, when used together, they would cancel each other's strengths. I am actually going to go back and see if an NBS IC/ OTA speaker cable combination is not the best combination yet. It certainly turned out true that and NBS / OTA power cord arrangement turned out the best. But this will take time, because of the need to rearrange equipment to fit the NBS back into the system--which is difficult because of the stiffness and weight of the cable.
As far as sead's tip about suspending the OTA cables, I always kept my cables off of the floor. But I did recently notice that some of the OTA digital cables were sort of tangled up with the analog ICs. A few were even touching the metal parts of my rack. Once I straightened the cables out, re-introducing some distance between them, and isolated them from the rack, the sound actually improved even more: become even more clear, more extended, rich, and organized. This was also the case when I noticed a while back that too much OTA speaker cable was resting against my speaker cabinet, and picking up resonances from the drivers. Moving them away helped out quite alot.

Ivo - thanks for the introducing yourself. I appreciate it and it's a pleasure to meet you.. :) Perhaps my statement was too strong in suggesting that as an unregistered Audiogon user your posts were not credible. I do believe that registering, as a user is important because there are so many people who post non-sense as unregistered in hopes to hide behind their anonymity. Registration somehow limits the non-sense but occasionally a few get by the screeners.

When you made the statement, "OTA cables are so natural and neutral that they sometimes present how the rest of the system is bad. It's not the problem of OTA, it's the problem of poor source, amp or speakers." I simply laughed it off. No harm done. I have read others say worse about those who dislike lesser cables.

I have spent a great deal of time with OTA and have been extremely polite in my appraisal of the product. There are more reasons why I no longer use it but lets just focus on what I have stated. What you took as me saying "too fast" was actually stated as "a little too fast". That's a big difference. That judgment was not based on a comparison between OTA and other cables per se but more a familiarity of my CD Player (Mephisto II), which tends to be a bit slow & relaxed sounding. The player maintains that character with every interconnect I have tried - except the OTA. The mild increase in speed (previously referred to as being "a little too fast") was accompanied by the disappearance of a certain "magical" quality I hold dear in the Mephisto. The more I listened the more I realized the OTA was restricting something somehow. While it seemed to have reasonably good dynamics it was clearly restricted somewhere since my components no longer sounded like my components were supposed to sound. With the OTA, my system was simply un-involving. Sorry...

Hi Slawney - being a reviewer, Asa has fantastic experience with audio products. It just happens that he pointed me (not pushed) toward these cables. At the time of my meeting Asa, I was caught up in the pain of Siltech, Valhalla, and other more mainstream brands. After a few emails with him I felt that Asa's experience with various cables paralleled mine in many ways. His knowledge, suggestions, and vivid descriptions were most welcome. Quite frankly, Asa saved me a lot of time and money with his suggestions.

These forums are designed to help people and this is a case where it did. Asa, through the forum, guided me from being a chronic 4 interconnect a week user to finding something that worked very well. Of course if we had never met, I would have eventually found the right cables - I just might be a lot poorer.

Asa
Thanks for your help!!

Sead
Nothing for you - The personal insults and degrading comments you have so eloquently defecated upon this forum are inappropriate, as I am sure you well know. I will not entertain your banal existence with fuel for further insolence.

Bwhite, I'm glad that you find proper cables and that you returned magic, involvement and right speed to your system.
After all, OTA is a lesser cable design and its main purpose is to connect 47 labs components, nothing more.
But, you have to admit that OTA has struggled very good with your esoteric cable designs!

Happy listening,

Ivo

Sead: you didn't "scar me emotionally" thats just your histrionics taking over again. You called me a hipocrite, a psuedo-intellectual, and a bunch of other things I'm not going to bother going back to see, when I just asked you to say why you said what you did. That's a horse's ass to me. Now you say I am/was a "dilletant" in psychology (by the way, its spelled "dilettante"). Well, I've got two master's degrees from the London School of Economics, where I wrote on the psychology of military thinking and the philosophy of war, even being invited to do a Ph.D., in addition to a law degree, and have published on the mind's perception of music, so I think you might be a little off on your assumptions. If you are interested in reading some of my articles on aesthetic theory, let me know. I'm not going to address anything more with you, which before Slawney took it upon himself to pull up something five months over, was where we left it.

Slawney: my post shouldn't have lead you to the position that I was underhandedly "influencing" people, especially given your personal experience with me - regardless of what type of semantical spin you want to stay with as your lone justification. I've been upfront with you, complementary of you, honest with you, tried to get you a position with my magazine at your request, even staying with it months after our sale was over, and you took an underhanded dig at me for some reason I don't yet get. Basically, I didn't let you get away with it and rather than admit you might have gone too far and apologizing you would rather keep arguing about why the word "push" - devoid of all context - allows you to assume something you now know isn't true. You should have never made the insinuation and you were wrong, then and now. As for sead, why are you dragging something up five months old? Just being "diplomatic", right? If you want to now stay out of what is/was between sead and myself, if anything, then you should have thought about that before becoming a five-month-too-late "diplomat".

I'm glad you ended with cable talk. Stick to that.

BWhite: your welcome and thank you. I learn from you too, as I have from Slawney.

On OTA: I was so intrigued because of the design and the fact that, just at that time, I was floored by the bare-wire connected KSL spkr wire. With all of the people here with good ears praising the OTA and it being "only" $600, I thought there might be a way to get away from the hideously expensive with the same or better performance. That was my motivation and when some people started to shy away from the OTA in comparison to the cables I have, I wanted to know why. I also felt better because I don't like leading people (and, "leading" is not a word that lets you accuse me of underhanded-ness..) to waste $ when less would do, wasting the money that I have along the way. Its really quite simple. I have no vested interest in NBS - quite the contrary - as I believe the manufacturer inflates prices and I do not wish to support such action, regardless of the rules of capitalism, such as they are. The problem is they do something that I have not heard elsewhere, something about "magic" in the right system (tubed). With that said, at $600 the OTA represents a wonderful value, notwithstanding that they are designed as an integral 47 labs' system product. The comparative investigation should continue and contrary opinions, validly given, should not be taken personally, as if someone believing that cable X is superior somehow diminishes your idea of yourself.