BAT to BAT - What's Best?

John, the illuminations are super. I did see the newest BAT SS pre at their site... though nowhere else. Nada. Absolutely, warmth and a touch of tubeyness is my prefference in sound in general. For where I want dynamics, old school rock and so forth, I'm simply gonna use another smaller system.

the Stereophile review made mention of one disparaging note... component synergy. in ref to the Saturn Calypso. I agree it interests me a lot. A dealer told me it was a hit or miss item for many folks. Sort of supporting the Stereophile take.

I'd sure not mind hearing it too. A dealer is about 200 miles round trip from me... and the folks at Aesthetics said they maybe could help if getting over to the dealer wasn't happening for me.

Did you have the 51se with other amps besides the 600? that might could play a part too. I understand the 600 to be quite the dynamic SS amp... akin to Krell. the vk500 hasn't a bright or brittle bone in it's chunky little body. It has always sounded as the pre or proc feeding it... given my limited experience in putting other things in front of it. It seems to have sufficient transparency in that anything I do to my rig does come through as a noticeable change. but yeah, I'd as soon stay oriented a shade or so to the left of neutral.

the addition/replacement of some PCs and passive filter have moved me to very near the 'DNM' (dreaded neutral monster), and things have 'cleared' up considerably from the sometimes darker side of the scale my rig previously resided in.

Thanks to my now preffs for big band jazz and slow entrance to classical genres. Not a bad thing either. So I'm no longer looking for 'lush'... that phase is likely past. I just can't physically take a top end that is anything less than easily or sweetly rendered. It just hurts after a while. Reckon I've gotten to sensitive there being hard of seeing and all. I don't know. ..and I'm really trying to avoid doing another amp as well, with mine being balanced only, the field of representatives and sonic qualities I want, it seems the path is pretty narrow... especially if you add in my hamstrung wallet.

RE 5881s
I'm using Tung Sols in mine. Like 'em. A lot. I had no idea tubes weren't in the power supply circuit in the current BATs. Hmmm. Tubes there definitiely would seem to provide a tameing aspect on the Dynamics.

Dave
thanks for the Transparent thoughts. lol. I believe I'm set for a time however.

No, I only had the 51SE with a BAT VK-600SE amp, so synergy could have had something to do with it. Though I had a pair of Clayton M-100 monblocks when I had my VK-31SE, and thought the BAT family sound was still there.

Yes, you could say from 1999-2007 BAT had taken the tubes out of their power supplies, now, as of 2007, they are going back to tubes in the power supply. They showed the new models at the CES, and my dealer tells me they should be shipping shortly.

Well component sysnergy is an issue with any item, including the VAC preamp you were talking about trying. FWIW, the Calypso is much less $$$ than the VAC, so I thought it worth mentioning. I'll have to re-read the whole article, as I must have missed Mikey's synergy complaint. The only compliant I saw from Mikey was in regards to the manual, summed up in his conclusion:

"Conclusion
Was I impressed by Jim White's Aesthetix Saturn Calypso? Damn straight I was. Used with far more expensive gear, it held its own and then some, and had one of the best-balanced sounds of any audio component I've come across at any price. At $4500 it's no budget product, but it's a high-performance component in every sense of the term, and something you can stick in the face of any cynic who thinks high-end audio has become a ripoff. Whatever the Calypso's sonic shortcomings might be, they're so well hidden that you'll discover them only by changing out the Calypso for whatever might prove to be better. My biggest complaint was the manual's virtually blank specifications page. The purchaser of a high-performance audio product deserves better documentation.

The Aesthetix Saturn Calypso was one of the most enjoyable, musically satisfying preamplifiers I have had the pleasure of reviewing. Your $4500 buys you a beautifully built, smartly designed, crisply functioning, versatile, and, most important, sonically brilliant preamplifier. I could live with it happily ever after. You could spend a great deal more and get more for your money, but you're just as likely to get less—that's how good the Saturn Calypso is. "

Sounds like it would be worth a trip to investigate anyway. Even if just to see if the remote's flexibility suits your needs.

So, if I understand this right, you are very happy with the sound of the VK-5i, but are just looking for more flexibility with the remote, is this correct? If so, I'll stick by my reco of the Calypso, or, if you have the dough, you may be interested in one of the newer BAT's with the tubes back in the power supply again. The least expensive new model with more remote flexibility than your VK-5i is the VK-32SE which has a list price of $7995 w/ remote.

John
...same Stereophile article ... previous paragraph...
under the header "Cooking"

" —but in my system for those days, the combinations of the two MF pieces or the two Aesthetix pieces didn't do justice to the music or to the system or to the individual components. When you're cooking up a stereo system, it's not enough to use the finest ingredients. You have to make sure the recipe works.

Conclusion ..."

perhaps I read more into that statement than I should. it's passed around enough here. synergy. Personally I'd never have thought two pre's one phon and one line, from the same maker, would have had an adverse effect or show poorly of themselves, working in conjunction with one another.

... but that's what I was speaking to. the dealer mentioned it before I did. Not the refference to the article but the notion that those people who buy it, sell it within a short period (like a year or so) afterwards... not many are kept. longterm.. so says the dealer intimating the synergy factor being IMO, acute rather than broad.

For me, as always, "Preownedsville", or less expense is the rule, not the exception once we pass the grand or so water mark. In all, if, as with yourself last year, life hadn't got in the way, I'd have been far closer now to doing something in this regard. In any case, mine will needs be sold for me to accomplish this or another preamp move.

...and yes, flexibility is the ticket as much as is catching up on technology and improving things in whatever areas can be improved upon... sonically.

the engaging factor about the Saturn for me was the three available recitations of the line stage were all with different gear, in different rooms, etc... and all proved positive results in terms of satisfaction with it's performance. that's the bit I liked. the excerpt I entered here was the only inkling of a possible issue as I recall. Only four tubes ain't a bad deal either.

So yeah, new or used, I'm excited about it. ... and at $7K, I doubt seriously that'll happen, BAT or no BAT. Oil well. We'll see. one never knows what may come down the pike. but I'm sure gonna hate to have to sell the vk5i. Absolutely.

The dealer that you were speaking with that claimed Aesthetix owners don't keep their gear long, , did he happen to sell Aesthetix equipment? If he does, then his words may carry some weight, if not then his words are meaningless. FWIW, my dealer carries ARC, BAT, VAC and Aesthetix. He seems to push the BAT and the ARC the most. He says that Aesthetix is very musical, and some folks like it for that, but it is not as quiet as the BAT/ARC gear. However, the BAT/ARC gear has the 6H30 tube that you don't seem overly fond of. I'm sure the ARC/BAT gear is quieter, more dynamic and powerful sounding than the Calypso. The Calypso may be more musical and cost less though.

From your take on the CJ CT6, it may well be that the 6H30 tube is not for you. The only knock I've heard on the Calypso is that it can be hard on tubes. It only uses 4 tubes in an all tube gain stage, with high output (29db gain?). I've heard from those who love it say it sounds best with stock tubes. It can eat up some expensive NOS tubes. Sounds similar to the reputation that the Audible Illusions M3A garnered years ago. Wonderful sounding preamp at a bargain price, but tube maintenance issues. Even the top dollar units don't have it all though.

I do wonder why the Aesthetix Calypso at $4,500 comes stock with a full function remote, while a Aesthetix Callisto Signature at $11,000 comes with no remote at all......seems strange.

John

I do wonder why the Aesthetix Calypso at $4,500 comes stock with a full function remote, while a Aesthetix Callisto Signature at $11,000 comes with no remote at all......seems strange.

I went with the Callisto simply because it has far more tubes. These Minnesota winters can be quite brutal so having a space heater helps much. And with me having to stand next to the Callisto to stay warm, there's no need for a remote.