Do powercords make a difference in sound?

Hi Byron, I'm sorry, but this otherwise very nice discussion is just too far off into the weeds for me to want to compound it further by delving into the boring specifics of my own experiences with power cords. You sound like you've done just as much experimentation as I have, so if you reached somewhat different conclusions, that's good enough for me.

Regardless of whether or not the 'sound' associated with a cable is extrinsic, intrinsic, or, as I think most of us would probably accept, a mixture of both (a description that in my book would apply to all audio components), it seems to me that as long as one can hear the differences, no theoretical conclusions regarding this factor would be likely to ultimately affect one's choices. The debate probably arises (once again) because we are talking about cables in general, and power cords in particular, which still tend to be regarded by many as though they are somehow extraneous to the signal path.

About this:

I will challenge you on one thing though, and that is this comment...

A listener's impression of a power cord might change with seating position!

On the face of it, this statement strikes me as a contradiction of the position you are advancing. If a listener’s impression of a power cord changes from one listening position to another, then the power cord in question FAILS TO exhibit consistent audible characteristics. And if a power cord fails to exhibit consistent audible characteristics across MINOR changes like listening position, then how can we expect the very same power cord to exhibit consistent audible characteristics across MAJOR changes, like two different audio systems?

I would take exception with two of your premises there. First, I don't consider a change in seating position to be at all minor. To me that can certainly be more significant than almost any change in wires (or of almost any component of similar type and quality, for that matter). As for the second, I'll ask you your own question in modified form: If your impression of the sound of a speaker were to change with listening position (and of course it would), would you then conclude that the speaker "fails to exhibit consistent audible characteristics" and expect it not to necessarily display any similarities in another setting?

when i was shopping for the quad 63, i visited several dealers until i heard what i liked. so it is obvious that speakers will sound different for a variety of reasons.

if i change my listening position from kneeling to sitting to standing, my quads (esl) will sound different. those who own this speaker will attest to my experiences.

changing ones seating position , while changing the sound of a stereo system, saying that the line cord contributed to the change in sound seems counter intuitive.

could someone explain how this could happen.

is it reasonable to also say that the performance of an amp could change with listening position.

listening position affects how sound is dispersed to your ears. amplifiers, power cords, and other passive and active components , excluding a speaker, do not disperse or propagate sound waves.

expensive power cords are funny! some of you should find some uber expensive wire and redo your entire electrical system from the pole in front of your house to the outlet! out of curiosity, i wonder why every manufacture doesnt sell an optional upgraded power cord with their amps,cd players,preamps,etc.,since so many people think they hear an improvement with them? it could be that the cord supplied is good enough in my opinion.

The seating position discussion has muddied the waters unnecessarily. I believe the intent was to discuss the fact that other variables are at work, as well as the variable of the sound of the cables. I would hope we all agree that seating postion has no absolute effect upon the performance of the cords. Perceptually, however, the system may sound quite different when seating position is changed, and one might find themselves more agreeable to the system. However, likely not.

It has been my experience that seating position does not have the "power" as a change to radically alter one's perception of what the cords are doing. Yes, I have changed seating positions while working with cords, and no, it has not had a significant effect on my conclusions about how any particular cords sound. While it does alter the experience it does not override the cables' performance when compared. I have selected the same cables as my preference regardless of the seating position (within reason, of course).

Recently, after having the same seating position for five years elected to move my chair 5" closer to the speakers. The sacrifice is in the sharpness of the center image, but in exchange I have more bass presence and a slightly more 3-D soundstage. Doing so has had no impact upon my decisions regarding cables.

I haven not tested the following thought, but it is quite possible that I would prefer a system where I was not in my favorite seating position (i.e. 5" off, like my previous listening position) yet had superior cords versus one where the seating position was "improved" and had poorer cords in use. Going off of my past experiences I would prefer the system with the better cabling.

People who think room treatments and seating position get you 90% of the way "there" (As though cheaper gear set up well will get you almost SOTA sound; it will not) will likely choke on that statement. However, anyone who's conducted tests of sets of cables as I have will likely agree.

Similarly, at times I change the inside angle of my panel speakers; once again this has not changed my conclusions regarding any particular cables.

Based on continued testing I would not consider listening position to be a dominant factor in cable selection.

I still do keep hope alive of someday getting off this thread, but (very simplistically): If you're sitting in one spot, you might react positively to a cord substitution that subjectively tightens the bass response. If you're sitting in another position, even with the same system, you might instead react more positively to a cord substitution that subjectively mellows the treble, or whatever. (The same would also apply to a change in speaker placement, choice of music, etc.) Remember, this is always in relation to the use of some other power cord; it's not possible to compare against no cord at all.* The same goes for listening position -- there is no neutral reference, only preference for a given set of circumstances, and when circumstance changes so may preference.

*[By contrast, it is often possible to evaluate interconnects against the neutral reference of their absence from the chain, rather than purely against one another. It's called bypass-testing, and it's more objective than conventional, subjective substitution testing, but few seem to do it, or even know about it. One easy way to do this, which I use, is by placing two competing interconnects under test into a remote-controllable preamp's A and B tape loops. Then from the listening seat it's a simple matter to, with no switchover delay, select and deselect first loop A a few times, then do the same with loop B, by which method the addition of each interconnect into the chain is compared against the direct feed (the 'bypass', or that interconnect's absence from the chain -- you are NOT switching directly from loop A to loop B; you're switching each loop in and out of the chain in turn, always listening next to the direct feed as your baseline reference). Whichever of the two interconnects alters the sound the least (or least objectionably) as compared with the direct feed wins the round (and can advance to a subsequent round if more than two interconnects are being tested). If you've never done something like this before, you might be surprised at actually 'hearing' your interconnects in isolation for the first time.]

And since I'm posting, I'll risk adding that I don't subscribe to the notion, advanced above, that changing out a whole suite of 'em in unison is the best way to evaluate power cords. The choice shouldn't be between exchanging two different cords between two components, which is obviously confounding, or else going to that other extreme. As with any test, it's always best to hold the variables down to a single controlled one if possible. In this case that means substituting one cord on one component while the others are held constant. In the case of changing out all the cords together, to me that's unecessarily introducing too many variables at once; you may certainly get a feel for the 'sound' of that new model of cord vs. whatever suite of cords was replaced, but not for how that cord synergizes with each individual component, which means you may overshoot the mark and miss the optimum configuration. Of course one may work one's way toward progressively replacing them all with the new cord, after having thoroughly evaluated that model by serially substituting it throughout the existing system (as ultimately happened with me), but I expect that for most audiophiles, like for myself, acquiring multiple duplicate cords before having even comprehensively evaluated a single example represents a putting of the cart before the horse and is unrealistic. (I also don't buy the notion, however helpful and comforting it may be, that one must hear any changes obviously and immediately or else they are rendered definitionally insignificant.)