Pure silver wire: solid, stranded or Litz wire?


I have quite a long experience in using pure solid silver wires in my DIY cables. Overall I am very happy with the results but I always enjoy trying out different things. After having tried a few types of solid silver I ended up with OCC. Not so much because of the claims about 6N-7N purity and mono crystal nature but because it simply sounds at least as good (but probably much better) than the standard 99.99% silver, it is much easier to work with and it is immune to corrosion. These are my observations and not claims by the various suppliers.
However, I am interested in trying out a stranded or Litz version of this silver (or any other type of silver that may be available at reasonable prices? Anyone with experience on it? Positives & negatives?

Regarding the stranded pure silver I do not see many benefits other than flexibility. I am also not impressed by the idea that many bare silver wires are in constant contact with each other. On the other hand Litz silver wires (individually insulated cores braided/twisted together forming a sigle conductors with an outer insulation)seem to be the ideal situation. However, they do not seem to be widely available?
I have come accross Litz type silver only in the case of internal tonearm wires (i.e. Audionote)but at very small sizes and very high prices.
Other than this some online research only came up with very limited sources about larger sizes (HGC and audionote). I have collected a few relevant direct links from different suppliers if anyone is interested but I am not sure if I am allowed to post them in the forums.

Anyway, in terms of Litz style wire, it appears that there is the usual Litz of very fine coated/enamelled cores or a simpler form with larger cores (but less in number)threaded in tiny teflon tubes of the same size before they are tightly twisted together. The second seemed quite an attractive option. It is much cheaper than the first Litz option, more flexible than solid wires, and the little Teflon tubes offer better insulation than a few coatings can do. It also offer improvements in terms of skin effect, ringing, while adds to the overall surcace area of the conductor without the need to use larger sizes.

Any ideas about known suppliers of such wires? Anyone has personal experience?
aber23
I have just ordered some silver Litz wires by Audio Note at different sizes so next weekend I will attempt to built some interconnects and make a few comparissons.

Some interesting information about their silver Litz wires can be found here: http://www.audionote.co.uk/comp/cables.shtml

I would really like to find out if the sound my short DIY Litz interconnects deliver is a common feature of any good silver Litz wire or the result of other parameters. So I hope to be able to test a few different silver LITZ cables.

Thank you Rik for your comment on the silver D501. It is similar to comments I heard from others as well regarding this cable.

About your question on cardas hexlink golden 5c I am afraid that I am not sure if there is a correct way to match the conductors. I would simply match them in a convenient colour coded way making sure that it is the same at both ends. I guess that the best thing to do is contact Cardas (or an experienced Cardas dealer) directly with your enquiry.
Well, some time passed and I did experiment with lots and lots of Litz wires. I bought what I could afford for DIY and borrowed some Litz phono cables whenever possible. Without getting into too much detail, I was slightly disappointed by the results. In the beginning the ideas behind Litz wire construction and my experience with my handmade cable gave me the impression that Litz equals to the best result you can get. I was very wrong, and I am not sure why. Some wires (like the audionote sounded good) but most of them were missing the “sparkle” of silver one can get from many solid and even bare stranded wires. I just get the impression that the very thin strands in the conductors are over-dampened by their coatings. I guess there is some effect of the insulation on the strands which I like in some copper cables (like Cardas) but on silver, where I expect speed, clarity and detail to a large extend such an effect was quite undesirable. Still trying to figure out what made that initial handmade Litz so special. Thinking of getting a ready-made Litz cable from the same guy and see if it could keep up with my initial impression. Anyone has any further thoughts about Litz wires?
Guess that you are already checked for Audio Tekne Litz wires, which are in fact cooper cables and not silver. Despite material I can say that AT cables are natural sounding much more than a number of other well established cables. This fact forced me to replace 7 times more expensive cables for AT’s. Some not well designed electronic may have a problem with Litz wires due to their high capacity. So it is worth to pay attention to Litz wires extra high transparency, low-level resolution, and sheer of naturalness from top to bottom.

Regards
Aber23. Thanks for an honest report after a lot of searching and hard work. Many people would conclude (delude themselves?) that the cables were great based upon the level of effort and cost expended to do the experiment. Kudos and keep at it! - John
Hi Guma15,

No actually I haven't since I was keen on sticking to pure silver so that I can make a more consistent comparison. However, after reading your message I did a small research on the Audio Tekne that (other then the good reviews about them) gave me some further ideas regarding Litz construction and issues that result from it.
One of the most important things that has a direct sonic impact on the performance of a cable is the primary insulation. i.e. the one that is in direct contact with the bare wires. My favouite insulations are cotton and Teflon. However, due to lots of secondary disadvantages cotton has, I rarely use it. So typically, Teflon is what I want as a primary insulation in a good cable. (Here, obviously there may be many other alternatives one may prefer) When solid conductors are involved Teflon is a common feature. However, this is not the case with Litz.
Typically, a Litz wire consists of a bundle of Magnet wires. This means that each strand is coated with enamel or some other type of varnish. Then, all the strands together can be insulated with cotton, silk, or some plastic based insulation. Until now, it never crossed my mind that the “problem” with Litz wires may not be the “over-dampening” by using all this insulation on the strands, but the quality of this insulation. I would never use a solid silver cable insulated with enamel or any of those varnishes. In Litz wires, however, this seems to be the standard and no one really pays much attention to it. Often the manufactures don't even mention what the primary insulation on the strands is. I come across descriptions like silk covered Litz. But silk here means very little since it is only the secondary insulation that surrounds the already coated strands.
Apparently, the sonic benefit of using teflon coated strands is left aside for the following reasons. First, the very high cost of production. There are some. companies that manufacture Teflon magnet wire and its price compared to their enamelled wires is 10 times higher.
Second, in order for the Teflon to be extruded over the bare wire, extremely high temperatures are required. In most cases these temperatures can burn the surface of materials like copper (and hence they are silver plated for protection). However, even when silver is used some surface damage is inevitable. So the application is really problematic.
Third. Teflon is really hard to work with. Will not burn or remove easily without risking to damage the silver cores. And when we are talking about hair-like fine cores, terminating such cables is going to be almost impossible.

The best silver litz I tried was the ones by Audionote and having checked their specs they some one of the most acceptable types of insulation although still inferior to Teflon.

Also, could you explain what you meant by “high capacity on Litz wires”. Although it sounds like an interesting remark, I am not sure that fully I understand what you meant.

I have now ordered a “kind of Litz” phono cable which is likely to overcome the insulation issues described above. I am not really sure what to expect (or if my approach described above has in the end such a significant importance).

There is also the issue of the size of the strands to be taken into consideration. i.e. a solid 24AWG wire.. well it is solid so it is a transmission line on its own. A stranded 24AWG wire will pretty much act as as single transmission line (no matter how many or what size of strands it uses) since the strands are bare and in contact with each other. In the case of a 24AWG Litz wire however, each strand is a separate transmission line/path and in this case the size of the individual strands matters. I am not sure what the ideal size would be though. Other then the mechanical advantage of using many and very thin strands I don't see any benefit over using less and larger (I.e.34awg strands). Actually the second option sounds better.

Also, thank you John. I am not coming here as an expert but as someone who has some knowledge and experience but understands that there is a lot more to try and learn. Some failure to get the result you expect is certainly not very pleasant, but if one is honest to himself should be able to accept it and move a few steps further.