The Problem with Synergistic Research

Facten,
The point is to stimulate discussion on a sensitive point. When you live overseas and you want to try out a cable -- or trade up -- the shipping cost can be hundreds of dollars in one direction. Multiply this by a few transactions and you are talking about a large sum of money. The problem is exacerbated by duty.

People in the US can avail themselves of relatively cheap shipping so that trading up -- or trying out cables -- is quite reasonable. If you try to do this overseas the cost can quickly become unreasonable, alas.

Mcondon,
I have found that it takes a lot of buying and selling to come up with a solution that works for my system. This has meant going against "the grain" -- not opting for a loom from one maker. I have found that there are some excellent products from non-SR companies that produce extraordinary synergy in series with some SR products. Because my approach is unconventional and I live overseas it costs a lot more in shipping costs to put this together than if I were living in the lower 48. Making mistakes is very costly. There is loss through buying and reselling products as well as the loss on the cost of shipping them back and forth.

Studiosoundman,
I appreciate your post very much. It examines the interrelationship of various factors that inform our audio choices. As you rightly point out, we are compelled to improve the quality of sound that our systems produce. But I have found that most products, especially in the cable department, provide incremental improvement at maximum cost. This goes for most high end cable companies, IMO. You can burn a lot of cash trying to find out which are gems and which are not worth the price.

For instance, how does one evaluate a product such as the SR Galileo Universal Speaker Cells? I have not read a testimonial anywhere about them. I have had them in my system for over a year. They bring a refinement in the sound that is significant. But, in series with Bybee Golden Goddess SE Speaker Bullets, the effect is much more palpable. Alone, each product offers an significant incremental improvement.

How do I evaluate the cost-effectiveness of each of these products? Well, that's the $64,000 question. Although I would not want to listen to my system without this combo I would say both products are over-priced -- compared with some other cable/tweak products I have in my system.

One nice thing that the Speaker Cells allow me to do is add one more level of speaker cables. With the Cardas Golden Cross sandwiched between ASI Liveline and HiDiamond (top-of-the-line) the sound is incomparable. Bybee Speaker Purifiers are in there too. There are 6 levels of cables/tweaks between amp and speakers. Each level makes a significant improvement to the sound. This is not for everyone.

In my system, in the cable/tweak department, dollar-for dollar by far the biggest bangs for the bucks are the old Bybee Quantum Purifiers -- AC, IC, speaker -- and HiDiamond cables. The Bybee Ultra PC (on the aftermarket) also provides excellent value -- in series with other PCs with Bybee Purifiers sandwiched in the middle the sound is elevated to a much higher level.

The SR Hologram D is a killer PC -- but at a killer price. I have yet to try HiDiamond PCs -- coming soon. I have all my PCs in series and will try the Hologram D in series with HiDiamond after A/B-ing them individually. The quest for the best possible sound -- within a diminishing audio budget -- continues.

Mcondon,
I appreciate your comments since they stimulate a deeper discussion of the matter. One can find the predictable responses to my posts:

1. Most companies do the same thing. If you don't like it move on to companies you like. Stop complaining and let us enjoy the music and the forums.
2. Way to go company!! Keep those great products coming so they can trickle down to us.

Both of these responses avoid the issues that I am encouraging discussion of, which are:

1. How much are you paying for the sonic improvements you are looking for? Do you feel you are paying too much -- or way too much -- for incremental improvements?
2. How are companies marketing their products? What motivates some companies to stick with a slower tried-and-true line that attracts a loyal following through good word of mouth and that evolves slowly -- while other companies gallop ahead with one fantastic improvement after the next --- accompanied by assertive marketing claims, to be sure, and replete with superlatives.

In hindsight, most improvements turn out to be no more than incremental. Customers are hyped to pay top dollar with the promise of something dazzling in return. A whole new line is usually rolled out to satisfy every budget interested and to give the illusion that no matter how lowly one's budget, everyone will participate in the latest and greatest, to one extent or another.

Frankly, I think it's all about getting audio buyers as excited as possible to motivate them to buy new. This may be an obvious point but I feel it cannot hurt to mention it. The pricing structure of new lines will be whatever new buyers are willing to bear. That is usually dictated by historical pricing -- what has become the pricing norm for individual manufacturers.

In other words, you will rarely see a manufacturer cutting the price of their top-rated new product by 50% vs. their previous comparative market entrant. You will likewise rarely see a manufacturer doubling the price of their top-rated new product vs. their previous comparative market entrant. To a great extent, once the cost of production and reasonable mark-up have been taken into account, prices are related to marketing when we are looking at the very high end companies.

Each new line is the absolute best, of course. So, when you look back, by corollary, if you bought 2 lines ago you paid way too much for way too little. The faster this marketing process is speeded up the truer the statement, IMO. Each successive line is highly touted, of course. It becomes a game that only the very well-heeled can participate in from start to end.

If one is budget-conscious, one is in a bind. It may take 2 or 3 years to get a really good buy on a line you may have a strong interest in. This means waiting longer than many people are willing to do. Patience is hard to come by when the latest and greatest is dangling before your eyes.

You stated above that you own a business, so my questions to you are - Do you not market/hype your business and products or services? Do you not try to differentiate yourself from your competitors? Do you not innovate to attract customers? Do you not look for unexplored market niches? Do you price your products or services without a mark-up that allows you the returns you want? Along with great customer service companies who want to stay in business and succeed do these things. So if your answer is yes to most if not all, then why shouldn't audio manufacturers be able to do the same. Presumably your customers have the choice of doing business with you or not. Likewise, you have choices to make audio purchases from whatever company you like within the context of how each operates. Good luck on your quest and, yes enjoy the music!

Wow Sabby D nailed you to the wall LOL yet you manage to write back with your messy answers/thoughts.

D,

That was some great come backs in defense to Sabby's beef. You are a very smart man and you have stood up in an intelligent way. The best response from anyone who would have started such a thread would be an apology for being a hypocrite.

I have written a bunch of trash on these threads myself about your ways D and I do turn from my foolish writings in light of your rebuttal.

Keep up the research D and have a good one.

Facten,
I have a modest one-product business. I am rather conservative. I have made 3 revisions to my product in going-on 20 years. I obviously do not believe in making revisions unless they are important. My customers are pretty happy the way things are.

The issue at hand is not about differentiating one's product from others, nor is it about attracting customers. It is about the pace of changes in the modern world. I was brought up with ink wells and a penny bought you 3 black balls. There are many things about the break-neck rush toward technological perfection in our modern world that are very troublesome to me. High end audio has been infected with this compulsion for new products at nearly break-neck speed.

I am happy when I discover a new product, component, cable or tweak that brings improved sound to my system. But most of the products I have put money into were not worth the price. I have not been afraid to spend $5000 on a product. The only thing is that, in the end, after closer assessment, there have been few products that have been worth it. The rest have been sold off.

If I started to tell the stories of some high end audio names -- 3 in fact -- some of the most touted names in the business with world-class designers behind them -- and how they blew up and nearly took down my system I would cause more forum problems for myself than I have the time to reply to.

With regards to components, not only are manufacturing standards and testing standards often poor, the quality of parts is often a pathetic joke. I opened one unit that suddenly had a "major malfunction" and I instantly knew why I had never seen a photo of the inside anywhere on the internet including on the manufacturer's site. The quality of the parts was pathetic. A piece of junk. We're talking about a product in the $10,000 to $15,000 range from one of the top makers in the world. Shocking. I had it repaired and sold it off.

With regards to cables, I took apart a multi-thousand dollar cable from a very high end company and was shocked to see a cheap plastic dialectric, substandard plug and IEC and the cheapest manufacturing quality one could imagine. Shocking. I sold off the other cables I had from the same company.

Beyond the issue of product quality, I feel that most of what is brought to market in high-end audio could well have remained a glint in the eye of whoever came up with the brilliant new idea -- and the audio world would not have been one iota worse off. In high end audio you need to tread very carefully if you have budget constraints, which most of us do.

Someone asked me about Apple in an earlier post. The only apple I have is the one I eat. I do have a cell phone -- very convenient. It is 11 years old -- still going strong. I am looking for a used one so I can keep going with the same model. In many ways I am an anachronism in today's world. My mother passed away recently at nearly 100. I was brought up very old-fashioned. I am still very old-fashioned in many ways.

Need I say -- all the above is IMHO.