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How do you judge your system's neutrality?


Here’s an answer I’ve been kicking around: Your system is becoming more neutral whenever you change a system element (component, cable, room treatment, etc.) and you get the following results:

(1) Individual pieces of music sound more unique.
(2) Your music collection sounds more diverse.

This theory occurred to me one day when I changed amps and noticed that the timbres of instruments were suddenly more distinct from one another. With the old amp, all instruments seemed to have a common harmonic element (the signature of the amp?!). With the new amp, individual instrument timbres sounded more unique and the range of instrument timbres sounded more diverse. I went on to notice that whole songs (and even whole albums) sounded more unique, and that my music collection, taken as a whole, sounded more diverse.

That led me to the following idea: If, after changing a system element, (1) individual pieces of music sound more unique, and (2) your music collection sounds more diverse, then your system is contributing less of its own signature to the music. And less signature means more neutral.

Thoughts?

P.S. This is only a way of judging the relative neutrality of a system. Judging the absolute neutrality of a system is a philosophical question for another day.

P.P.S. I don’t believe a system’s signature can be reduced to zero. But it doesn’t follow from that that differences in neutrality do not exist.

P.P.P.S. I’m not suggesting that neutrality is the most important goal in building an audio system, but in my experience, the changes that have resulted in greater neutrality (using the standard above) have also been the changes that resulted in more musical enjoyment.
bryoncunningham
bryoncunningham OP
888 posts
 
Newbee wrote:
"Using the term neutrality as a goal is, for me, no different that using the phrase absolute sound, i.e. live music (thanks to Harry Pearson). It is unachievable and serves no really purpose other than to put consumers on an endless (and expensive) pursuit (goal) of the achieving the impossible. It works well for folks with commercial interests though."

I have no commercial interests of any kind in the audio industry. I don't even know anyone who has a commercial interest in the audio industry.

In addition, I don't see how treating neutrality as a virtue in an audio system is any more likely to lead to equipment addiction than treating resolution, transparency, dynamics, imaging, etc. as a virtue. Any one of these characteristics can be fetishized, if a person is so inclined. I do not believe that I have fetishized neutrality in this thread. In fact, in my original post, I wrote:

"I’m not suggesting that neutrality is the most important goal in building an audio system..."

In a subsequent post, I wrote:

"As to the doubt, expressed by several posters, that neutrality is a vital consideration in assembling a satisfying music system, I am actually somewhat agnostic."

As I believe is obvious from these comments, I do not think that neutrality is of paramount important, of exclusive importance, or of essential importance. In my view, it is simply one goal among many. That is the view I have expressed throughout this thread. To suggest otherwise is to make a straw man of me.
cbw723
89 posts
 
Kijanki wrote:
"Well - I'm my own playback engineer and I choose the sound I like."

I think most of us do this to some extent, since we put a fair amount of effort into modifying our system and keep the changes that we think make things sound better.

But what makes things "sound better?" Sometimes it's a change in resolution. Sometimes it's a shift in tonal balance. Sometimes it's improved dynamics. And so on. In each case, we use our experience and our taste to make a judgment. The point of this thread is to talk about another aspect of one's system that may make things sound better.

We each weight these things as we see fit. Some people might not care about anything but resolution or pinpoint imaging, to the exclusion of everything else. Some people, like Newbee, don't think neutrality exists. So these people weight neutrality zero when considering system changes. You seem to prefer some degree of coloration, so there are at least some aspects of neutrality you don't care about. But to me, if I make a change and different instruments sound more different (while, obviously, remaining true to what they are), as Bryon suggested in his original post, then I've affected something that may make the music more enjoyable.

As for being one's own engineer, it's intriguing to think that we could individually EQ every song in our collection. It would even be worth the effort on some tracks. But, honestly, I think compression is our biggest enemy in the source, and I don't see a way to restore that without the cooperation of the record companies.
newbee
4,093 posts
 
Byron, IMHO we simply disagreed on the use of the term neutral as it applies to this hobby and it appears that we just continue to do so. My ignorance, or inflexibility, perhaps. So be it. I've said far more than I ever intended.

BTW i never thought you had a commercial interest in audio but if by using this thread to expose a tad of contempt for those that do, when what they do is based on false premises, I've go to plead guilty to availing myself of the opportunity without regards to your sensitivities.

Ciao
kijanki's avatar
kijanki
3,575 posts
 
Cbw723 - no I would not adjust sound for individual songs but rather pick affordable system that sounds best to me on average with the type of music I listen to.

Whole issue of neutrality is very fishy since there is nothing to compare to. Should my wife get neutral system if she doesn't like strong bass. Some people have ears more sensitive to certain frequencies than others. Older person with loss of hearing at high frequencies (we're all getting there) shouldn't be forced to listen at home to neutral system that plays what they hear at the concert with lack of highs. He should rather pick a little brighter system to compensate. Even gender matters - woman hear and see differently than man. Do all people have the same taste for the food. Do all people like spicy dishes?
Neutral food to hindu is too spicy for you. It is similar with hearing to lesser degree.

If neutral system could be really defined we could hire people with best hearing ability (conductors, musicians etc) to rate systems or pick them for us. It will never happen.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
Nothing creates as much discord among audiophiles as the topic of neutrality.

That's pretty funny.
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