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Center Channels sound crappy

Why do center channels sound so crappy with music?

This is something that absoilutly baffles me...

I was talking to a KEF rep at SoundTrack audio, he said it is becuase they are designed for dialogue more than anything else.
What im wondering, is why can alot of center channels only give marginal preformance with music?
My front KEF Q1's do a fantastic job creating a phantom center channel, the dialogue is crisp and clear. They do a fantastic job on music as well.

Wouldnt it make more sence to just get another KEF Q1 for $225.00 and use that as a center instead of paying 350 for a speaker that does great voice but crappy musical preformance?

I know it was not the "center channel" amp either, it is on a DENON 3803 and all channels are identical, i was playing it with the 5/7ch stereo mode and all the speakers sounded great for music but the center channel really really sucked..

i noticed this with my past DefTech setup as well...

has anybody done a serious comparison between a center channel and a monitor of the same brand with same drivers and heard any vast improvement with the center speak with dialogue?

does it have anything to do with sound dispersion?

----- Slappys disclaimer-----
It was not my intent to offend anybody with the above post, im genuinly curious and hope it does not offend anybody becuase that is clearly not the intent. If so, please reffer to "My Apologies" thread which explains more.
------------------------------

THANKS IN ADVANCE
slappy
david_berry
211 posts
 
Slappy,

"I know it was not the "center channel" amp either, it is on a DENON 3803 and all channels are identical, i was playing it with the 5/7ch stereo mode and all the speakers sounded great for music but the center channel really really sucked.."

I used to have a Denon 3802 with Paradigm Studio 60v2 fronts, Studio CCv2 center, a pair of Mission 700 bookshelf speakers for the rear, and a Paradigm PW-2200 subwoofer. I found that when I listened in the 5-channel "stereo" mode, the center channel sounded weak and somewhat "mushy" while the other 4 speakers sounded good. I, at first, thought that the speaker was defective. To try this theory out, I disconnected one of the Studio 60's and put the center channel in its place. Sounds good! What the hell is going on? OK, thought I, it has to be the center amp w/in the Denon. I took the Denon back to the audio store where I bought it and told them the story. They ran some tests while I was there and damn if the center channel amp was fine. About 10 seconds after the final test, the owner rolled his eyes and said that, yes, of course the center channel sounds relatively bad compared to the other 4 speakers. The center channel has to go through, by definition, a DSP from a stereo input. In other words, it is a half-baked blend of the stereo input!
That makes sense, thought I.

Regards,
slappy OP
903 posts
 
Huh.....

makes sense i guess.... ya know i really diddnt think of that...

The amps are all identical, so i ruled the reciever out of the problem, but you are right, for the 5ch sereo it has DSP it into a channel....

that must be some real CRAPPY dsp for that mode...

i think i might play around with that tonight. put one of my Q1s into the center position.

The center channel is only really used for dialogue on 5/6/7.1 setups, i never really checked to see if it plays with DSP modes, i really only listen to music in stereo without any DSP. normally with the PURE DIRECT function.

I bet that is it. I havent listened to any DVD-A on it yet, cause in dont have the 6 cables needed and dont have the cash to get em yet, so im using digital coaz which wont carry the DVD-A signal...

thanks for the info! that gives me more to think about
david_berry
211 posts
 
Slappy,

Following your DVD-A thoughts, I had a Sony SCD-C555ES multichannel SACD player hooked up into a Denon 3802 via the 6 cables. The recordings that were multichannel sounded just fine through the center channel.

Regards,
drew_eckhardt
394 posts
 
1. Placement. Any speaker not designed to be placed on a TV or in an entertainment center will sound bad there - and most center channels aren't. Finally, a plastic TV cabinet is also very resonant.

2. The horizontal MTM orientation. There will be off-axis nulls of up to 20dB.

With many center channels, your best bet is to put it on an adjustable height stand (Sound Anchors) a few feet in front of the TV/screen, vertically, raised as high as you can without getting in the way of the picture. Or perhaps suspended a few feet from the ceiling - we can't localize height as well when sounds are coming from above us.

3. I used to think the center channel was only for movie dialog therefore making it less important (I figure that I don't know what actors & actresses sound like in the flesh - although I've heard plenty of musical instruments and know when they're off). One of the dipole list guys decided to do a survey - 14/15 movies he tried had music up there. I played with it in my system, found that this was mostly the case. After upgrading main speakers (Linkwitz Orion), the sound quality issues from an inferior center channel (Definitive C1) using a fabric dome tweeter (metal/fabric tweeter seems to make the biggest difference i ntweeter integration) are readily aparant; so I'll be building a shorter 3-way dipole center.
distortion
571 posts
 
I rarely use my center channel when listening to music.

But when I do, I prefer the "DTS:NEO 6 MUSIC" setting, with my center physically about 1 foot behind the front L/R plane and the Delay set 2 feet further back. e.g. 12 feet for front L/R and 14 feet for my center. (my pre/pro uses feet for delay instead of millisecs)

It is a fairly timbre mathched setup, although the CDM-CNT(center) uses a different mid/bass driver than the CDM-9NTs(mains), they are at least similar, and they have identical tweeters. Two different amps are in use. Bryston on the mains and Rotel on the center/surrounds.

It sounds fine by my ear, articulate, and responsive, the soundstage is deep, and involving. I would say a highly intergrated sound.

I prefer analog bypass 2 channel however.
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