Are you manufacturer's paying attention?

-which is why I think if comparisons are made, then keep the prices comensurate too. If a particular amplifier performs out of its price catagory, *then* find out what it does compare to. Would it be the bang for the buck amplifier then? What if it cost $5000 but sounds better then one that's 10K? What do all the people who can't even afford 3K do? My guess is they will think the $5K amp is overpriced too.

But the fact of the matter is these disparities exist. There *are* amplifiers out there that outperform other amps that cost several times more.

The comes the issue: how do you compare them? There's an awful lot of amps out there. Usually the best place to test an amp is in the home, as IMMV. Actually, audiophiles have been lied to for so long (every comapny in the world saying they make the best equipment in the world) that all audiophiles have to test the gear in their homes, since if the dealer's or manufacturer's lips are moving, he's probably lying. Its gonna take a log time for everyone to listen to each product in the home to get anywhere.

So what's being said here? That we can't trust the magazines anymore? I think the truth of the matter is that the magazines serve to alert us to the presence of a particular product, but that the real homework is always on the shoulders of the buyer!

Not a lot the manufacturers can do about that. Like any other sport, this one has a lot of politics.

This is actually part of a much bigger problem. Our hobby is incredibly small, and shrinking in the face of surround video. 2 Channel needs to grow 3-5, maybe 10 times bigger then its current size in order for manufacturers' prices to come down. Expecting $1000 amplifiers to perform audio nirvana is just not realistic unless... unless the manufacturers can volume buy their parts. What about their costs? Building leases, electric, phone, insurance, to name a few, are rising exponentially.

Go price SOA cameras, lenses, motorcycles, boats, a decent car is pushing $30K for heavens sake. The average home is $200K, and a decent night on the town, not including ballet, opera, or any hot group concert tickets, is a couple hundred. So why should anyone expect hi-end audio to be cheap. In light of the above sky-rocketing prices in the world we live in- Is that fair?

At $1995 the Plinius 8100 is an all-time incredible bargain- 100 wpc, remote control integrated that is both wonderfully musical, and powerful. The GamuT CD-1 has been compared to the Burmester $58K transport/DAC. Gamuts amps have set the price vs performance benchmark with their amplifiers too!

Ask not what hi-end can do for you- ask what you can do for hi-end. And that my friends means inviting friends into your homes and sharing the passion, joy and psychological benefits of music played through a well conceived audio system.

Robert Hart
www.audiotweakers.com

Well said, Tweak1.

Shubertmaniac,

Who cares what TAS rates as class 1. I would suggest that there is much more that goes into these ratings than meets the eye. I am certain there's a lot more involved in these ratings than how a component makes music. Can you read between the lines?

And only if you have the disposable income, I'll tell you why you should spend more than the Spectral , BECAUSE IT AIN'T TUBES, speciffically an OTL tube design.

Solid state is looking at a Monet from 5 feet. Tubes are looking at a Monet at 10 feet. Otl's are looking at a Monet from 20 feet. Try it and see which one is more realistic.

Warren

Fiddler. Do you mean listener distance in the hall, or do you mean general clarity?

If you mean apparent "hall perspective," my experience is the opposite. Every single SS amp I've auditioned tended to give a more distant perspective than either tubes with transformers or OTL amps.

If you mean general focus, I still don't follow you based on experience. OTL's happen to provide the most detail in a realistic way I have ever heard. SS amps might initially give one the impression of increased focus, but one usually pays the price in the form of either exaggerated, dry detail, or an attempt to control those known down sides with an artificially damped or controlled upper frequency presentation. The SS amps I am comparing to include: Mark Levinson No. 33's, Spectral DMA-100, Pass Labs 250's, BAT-VK-500, and the Sunfire amp.

Not all the tube amps I've tried are the cats meow, either. I still just can't relate to your unequivocal statement about viewing a painting at 5, 10, and 20 feet, etc. My own experience does NOT jibe with it.

I also find it interesting that SS supporters tend to phrase their position in absolute terms, as if they have scientific certitude on their side. To question it is to throw oneself into the realm of heresy--so religiously convinced does the language of many SS proponents sound.

I personally could care less what is inside the amplifier-whether it's SS, tubes, OTL, or batteries, whatever…. All I care about is verisimilitude to a live performance. I find a greater consistent familiarity to live sound when I listen to good tubed amps. That's different from stating something like. "Take a listen to a live performance; a good tubed amp gives you the weight, authority, the air, the harmonic structures in tact, etc. The SS amp gives you a good approximation, but it tends to foreshorten the front-to-back layering or lessen stage depth, shrink the sound stage in general, reduce the physical presence or sense of real people making air move." Many SS proponents seem to use dictatorial language, which implies that any other view is inaccurate, and worthy of ridicule. Many tube folks seem to just state matters in terms of their experiencing a live concert and leave it at that.