where do you cross over your ht setup

"Distortion"...without going back through all your threads, I just wanted to mention, not for just you but all reading, that when considering crossover frequencies/placement, for best sound, and correct sound even, you must make sure that all the speakers that are crossed over are coupling WELL AT THE CROSSOVER FREQUENCY! For example, if you are crossing all your speakers over at 80hz, or some of them even, those speakers MUST BE PLAYING CLOSE TO FLAT DOWN TO 80 HZ WHERE THEY'RE SET UP AND/OR WHERE YOUR LISTENING POSSITIONS ARE CORESPONDINGLY!!!
People most often get poor results with sub/sat systems, and even systems where they're using more full range speazkers but crossing them over to a sub, by not making sure their getting adequate frequency extension and balanced response at that frequency especially!!! The often result is that "hole in the middle/bass" sound that sounds incomplete!!! This is what most audiphile's who use full range speakers complain about with sub/sat systems, or otherwise against "not" running anything other than 2 channels full range for music/movies/whatever!!!...and to that, I can understand. Another issue becomes incorrect phase between speakers and sub vs. seating possition!!! another cause of problems in crossed over or sub/sat systems. And to which, I concure, you need to consider some other steps/issues when placing a sub/sat system up properly. But then you need to set up any speaker system up for flat/even frequency response anyway!...it's just a bit different proceedure when considering separate elements, such as a sub/sat combo, or even full range/crossed over to a sub set-up.
So, I just wanted to mention, that anyone crossing over speaekrs/satalites/whatever to a powered sub/bass module, that you need to consider making sure, first that have your speakers placed in possition that allows them to extend evely all the way to the crossover setting(i.e, 80hz, whatver). In general, I find a lot of sealed box satalite speakers need to be closer to the room boundaries often (not always, as room modes are scattered, but maximize near walls) to couple strongly down to 80hz(depending on design of course...some go deeper) to sound the best at 80hz. Also, placing smaller monitors on stands no higher than 24" is often a good way to ensure good bass resonse at 80hz, considering a standard 8' ceiling. IF you have a higher 9' or better ceiling, the stand height can go up!..this has been my "general" finding with most set up's. People often have trouble getting flat frequency response from their satalites who's bass woofer(s) and port are too high off the ground(unless up higher toward ceiling placemnt)! The problem there is that at 8' ceiling heights, the 74hz mode is in the middle of the ceiling to floor distance. And the close the speakers bass woofer/port is to the middle, the weaker the bass response in that reigion, which is close to teh 80hz cross point!..in general, I just find the bass response is stronger and better coupled to the speaker/room when the bass woofer is down lower on a stand. Of course, floor standing speakrs have the other problem, especialy in smaller rooms, and that's that the bass woofer/port are closer to the floor, which reinforces the bass who's 1/4 wavelength is not greater than the distance between woofer/port and floor! So floor stander often have no problem with crossing over to a sub, because they already couple well in the bass in most all settings! Of course, there are other room dimmension and size considerations. but still, the important thing is making sure your speakers sound full and extended down(flat is also the best) to the CRITICAL CROSSOVER FREQUENCY(In most cases, 80hz w/small setting).
If people would take time to properly set up EACH SPEAKER for flat, extended, and even a fruency resonse as possible (much easier the larger the room, but more critcal in smaller troublesome rooms!), especially down at the critical crossover point, they would get TREMENDOUSLY DYNAMIC, EXTENDED, FULL, COMPLETE, FAST(MUST HAVE PROPER PHASE BOY'S N GIRLS!), HARD HITTING, AND COHERENT/ACCURATE BASS overall!...and you'd be thrilled!
Again, as I posted earlier, dynamic transparancy and weight/speed is also largely a factor of efficiency. IN this case, you get more efficiency from passive speaker systems(i.e, B&W speakers, popular Paradigm studio's, and similar, etc) when you cross over those relatively inefficient speakers(considering the passive hard to control damping-wise passive networks in those speakrs, as opposed to ACTIVE PRO MONITORS AND SUCH) to an active sub, effectively bi-amping your system for maximum dynamic potential!(even more so considering most use less able receivers to drive their speakrs...separates are usually much stronger)
But still, after maximizing that part of the set up, getting proper frequency response, phase, proper crossover blending, and attaining overall coherence from ALL YOUR SPEAKERS, including and especially in relation to your sub from all speakrss, your system will rock!!! It'll be so dynamic, coherent, weighty(make sure you have enough sub and also amp for your room/volume needs!), and powerful..not to mention seamlessly transparent!
Most people never end up with a proplery set up/calibrated system/room, and they never end up even gettiing one speaker set up correctly, let alone 6 or more!!!!
Take one speaker at a time...first the mains, then the sub to the mains, then the center to the mains/sub, then the rears to the sub!..all for perfect frequency response, coupling, and phase alignment. YOu'll then have a system so complete, hard hitting, coherent, and dynamic you won't no what do do with yourself!
Of coure, there's lots more to acoustics and set up, regarding imaging, soundstange, inteligibility, and tonality and such, among others. But you'll be WAY AHEAD OF THE GAME, if you can just get the speakers set up right, and the crossover mazimized, and the phase right!
enough said.

Ok..not "enough said"!..my bad.
Actually, I forgot...for those consdidering larger tower speakers stuffed into smaller, even medium sized rooms, and are playing them full range, you are going to have to deal with the problems with bass boost and boom! IN general, the bass will be heavy, thick, and too dominant and boomy! In short, you'll have more bass mode problems and un-accurate bass playing those big speakers full range!..which is another benefit of crossing em over as "small"(or just using smaller speakers in smaller room environements), and concentrating on balancing a more flexibly place subwoofer(or more), and possibly "EQ'ing" out the bass just to the sub maybe!!!
Especially in the average "smallish" rooms that most people have to deal with, proper bass managment and balancing becomes even more critical for "flattest"(wich means best dynamic range between softest to hardest dynamic extremes by the way) bass response in a system. Larger rooms have more evenly distirbuted bass modes, and finding more flexible plaments for speakers becomes easier in such spaces. So you have more flexibility and likely hood of a novice getting "flatter" "more natural", and accurate "frequency response" from the system.
I just find that doing the "small" crossover setting already gives too many advantages towards getting a more accurate, dynamic, and easy to work with sound from most peoples scenarios they're likely dealing with.
Good luck

"Number one","set all speakers to large"."Eye,eye captain"."All speakers are set to large"."Number one,how do the nulls and peaks look"? "Captain, it's a miracle,no peaks or nulls"."Number one,set a course to use the sub only for LFE"."But Captain, no one uses full range and the sub set to LFE only"......to be continued

Exertfluffer, thanks so much for the info. Today I tried running the LFE straight from the processor to the Sub. Which, in effect, bypassed the external controls/crossover. It didnt make any difference. But, when I choose, and I usually dont, to run my Sub when I listen to 2 channel bypass, I will need the Xover since my Processor only outputs a full range Subout (in that mode).

Sheesh. You guys thought i was long-winded ???

Personally, i disagree with a LOT of what Exertfluffer has stated concerning full range mains, surrounds and powered subs. "Most" commercially built powered subs perform less than optimally for multiple reasons and should be avoided. They are nothing more than a compromise and a convenience for those that aren't willing to do things "right" and / or want to keep things simple / are on a budget. There are exceptions to this rule, but for what these "exceptional" powered subwoofers cost, you could easily buy a passive sub, active crossover and a better quality amp. Most manufacturers charge a LOT for that "convenience factor", especially when maintaining high levels of quality through-out the entire design.

As to some of the other conversations here, my theory is that one should buy speakers that are suited for the task at hand. That is, IF one wants to do things "most correct" or "optimally". While i realize that most folks don't have the space for this and have to compromise / blend their 2 channel & HT systems together, I didn't do that and don't recommend it if at all possible.

I think that Vedric and i are on the same page. That is, my mains are down about 3 dB's in the low 20 Hz range. My surrounds make it down to the high 20 Hz range due to slightly smaller woofers and a slightly smaller cabinet. I mention this because El brings up a very valid point, but one that doesn't apply to my system. That is, since much of what we are hearing is voice reproduction in movies, the most important part of sound reproduction for an HT system would be the midrange. If the woofer is doing double duty as the lower and / or upper midrange, having it try to reproduce deep bass will surely "muddle things up". That is why i bought and run four-way speakers i.e. woofers, lower midrange, upper midrange, tweeter for the mains and surrounds.

In a design such as what i'm using, all the bass that requires any type of excursion is handled by dual woofers. Using this approach, the other drivers can do their thing over a narrower bandwidth. Not only does this reduce the required excursion from each of the other drivers, it lowers distortion, increases power handling, improves transient response and raises the max spl of the system. It is a "win-win" situation and there is no loss of resolution due to having the mains cover the full bandwidth.

Then again, every situation is different and you have to build / design for that installation and / or work with what you already have. Given that most people think of HT as being BIG "booms" and high spl tire screeching, the market has been flooded with highly efficient, low cost products that measure and perform poorly but sound "exciting". If that is what one is looking for, a cheap but effective system can be easily built for not that much money. Personally, i wouldn't take that approach, but there are tons of people out there that are doing just that. Sean
>