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New Construction Acoustic Design & Consulting

I need a professional consultant to work with my architect to help build as perfect a listening room over my garage as possible. RIVES is one possibility but I don't want to spend 10K just for the consulting work. I would like to build in as much sound isolation and room treatment as possible like that done for this person:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue16/lavigneroom.htm--

Could I use ASC as a primary consultant and RIVES for after the room is built to do the final touch ups and room treatment? They only charge $100 for the engineer to help render sketches and make suggestions for the contractor.

acousticsciences.com

I would need detailed plans so that the architect would know how to impliment the built-in bass traps etc. I would need help with the specifics of window and door selection (materials) and placement, room dimensions, ceiling slope, floating floor, isolation etc... Please also see the list of ideas below. RIVES charges a fortune to render drawings based on a computer modeling system. I am not sure all of that makes sense until after the room is built, furnished and then tested, but certainly it is advantageous to build in as much acoustic isolation and treatment as possible from an aesthetic and cost perspective. Please comment on some of the suggestions below:

Room sizes

13X21X8 Feet
14 X18X8 Feet

windows o.k.
According to Dave Wilson

1. pitch ceiling height lower over speakers, higher over listener
2. Build bass traps into the wall
3. Corner loaded bass traps
4. Bass trap all four vertical corners and the ceiling perimeter corner with a soffit bass trap
5. Room dimensions:
Must over-size room by minimum of 6 inches walls, floor, and ceiling to allow for buildouts for acoustic treatments and sound isolation
A. 13-15 feet wide by 15-23 feet long
B. Room height 7-9 feet
must account for additional height of "floating floor"
C. Wall/stud resonance treatment and constrained layer damping: 1. Sandwich two layers of sheetrock. ? Gyproc Soundbloc 1.5 soundproofing plasterboard 2. Suspend sheetrock off studs by screwing into resilient metal fir strips called "z-metal" or "RC-1" 2. Visco damping material {1/16 " thick double sided adhesive visco-elastic sheet} is applied between the z-metal and the first sheet rock layer and a second visco-elastic sheet between the first and second layers. In place
of double sided adhesive visco-elastic sheet, can 100% glue to both sides a layer of sound board {firtex or celotex}. ? Staggered studs. The ceiling must be treated the same way.
D. Locate entry door behind the listner but on a SIDE WALL {nowhere near the speakers since the door will raddle} NOT ON A BACK WALL AND not flush to the corner and at least 2 feet from the corner. Door cannot rattle? Heavy acoustic door/frame?
E. Windows are very tympanic and should be avoided. Tall narrow windows are best.
Must not use standard thermal type instead use 2 layers of thick laminated glass [like that used for glass shelving in stores] separated by at least 4 inches of air space. The air space must be vented into the wall cavity. Set the glass into a bed of visco-elastic damping material. The glass sheets should be of different thicknesses.
F. Lighting should be subdued, indirect, and dimmable. Do not use standard wall dimmers since they will often hum or buzz. Use a variable voltage transformer. Consider low voltage lighting. Do not use ceiling cans, they rattle. The best light has a ceiling bezel and lens of thick rounded glass. Consider creating a false ceiling to hide projector, cabling, HVAC
ventilation big problem if room needs to be airtight to insure adequate sound isolation and room damping from the rest of the house
G. Address side wall, rear wall, and ceiling reflections which are determined by speaker placement. Room dimensions must account for acoustic panels
dbk
cinematic_systems
282 posts
 
"there is an inherent conflict between selling a product and selling a design."

What? ...a little knowledge can be dangerous Dbk.

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The best and only advice IS to get a good consultant, Bob Hodas or Chris Huston are two of the very best and work for reasonable rates considering there tremendous resumes.

I use Bob Hodas and the people at RPG for all the backup I will ever need to take care of the slightly complicated issues that can occasionally arrive. Clearly taking my own advice at having a relationship with qualified highly experienced people.

The 2nd big hurdle is communicating with your construction contractor to make sure they understand that nothing is arbitrary that the details matter. Look for fear in their eyes, if its there you want to carefully evaluate if these are the guys you want building your room. I am lucky to have a contractor that I have built almost 20 rooms with. The first 5 were very painstaking to work out the specifics of the details and getting the right materials and fixtures. Now we know :) its a little easier.

For the level you imply you wish to achieve you need a real consultant involved with a competent (dealer, acoustician) go between to smooth some minor bumps not just a plan.
stehno
1,453 posts
 
Or you can use a little common sense.

There are no guarantees whatsover that hiring a professional consultant will do a better job than you.

In fact, if your would-be consultant can not demonstrate for you a real system/room combination that s/he designed that absolutely bowls you over with it's sonic presentation across the frequency spectrum, you are probably better off to keep looking for another or perhaps consider taking on this project yourself.

As with some to many things in life, designing a truly superior system and associated room is perhaps more art than science. And "for the level you imply" ultimately, this generally can be accomplished only over a long period of time.

-IMO
soundprogression
7 posts
 
I couldn't agree more although there are other competent consulants that maybe be near the site location.
cinematic_systems
282 posts
 
Stehno please, do you really believe that?

"As with some to many things in life, designing a truly superior system and associated room is perhaps more art than science. And "for the level you imply" ultimately, this generally can be accomplished only over a long period of time."

There is no "art" except in the interior design and color selection. Your preference to feel around in the dark and figure stuff out the hard way certainly should be mentioned as a qualifier for your opinion.

Shocking how people with a very high level of investment in audio believe that they have "lucked" into a sound or that it would be impossible to achieve a high level in 45 minutes with the right tools and the right equipment.

This is a science the art was captured by a microphone and from there it is a science of preservation. People who call it art simply don't want to be held to a standard and are taking the intellectually easy way out by not trying to explain what is happening.

I'll tell you what the hardest thing about building a system is, its taking the time to define what you want your system to do and being honest to yourself and everyone else about it. Because if you don't know what you want how can anyone ever deliver something satisfactory?

There is no magic to building a great system, just know how or trial and error.

stehno
1,453 posts
 
Cinematic, just to get an idea where you are coming from, what percentage of enthusiasts and professionals do you suppose have truly superior sounding systems?

As for the 'luck' that you flippantly impose on my supposed achievments. Save the the luck category for somebody who needs it, will ya?

As for your statement about being honest to yourself and everyone else. That kind of talk is just plain silly and without substance. But it sounds sooooo good.

A great sounding system is kinda' like an absolute truth. Something is absolutely true whether we believe it or not. I don't make it true and you don't make it false. It either is or isn't true and it stands in and of itself.

One should be able to pretty much say the same thing about a great sounding system, a fine automobile, a fine wine, etc., etc.. Regardless of personal preferences.

I'm not trying to take away anything from those professional consultants who truly know what they are doing. I was simply pointing out that there are absolutely no guarantees that one of these can do a better job.

Surely, you are not saying that all professional audio consultants know what they are doing, are you?

-IMO
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