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New Construction Acoustic Design & Consulting

I need a professional consultant to work with my architect to help build as perfect a listening room over my garage as possible. RIVES is one possibility but I don't want to spend 10K just for the consulting work. I would like to build in as much sound isolation and room treatment as possible like that done for this person:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue16/lavigneroom.htm--

Could I use ASC as a primary consultant and RIVES for after the room is built to do the final touch ups and room treatment? They only charge $100 for the engineer to help render sketches and make suggestions for the contractor.

acousticsciences.com

I would need detailed plans so that the architect would know how to impliment the built-in bass traps etc. I would need help with the specifics of window and door selection (materials) and placement, room dimensions, ceiling slope, floating floor, isolation etc... Please also see the list of ideas below. RIVES charges a fortune to render drawings based on a computer modeling system. I am not sure all of that makes sense until after the room is built, furnished and then tested, but certainly it is advantageous to build in as much acoustic isolation and treatment as possible from an aesthetic and cost perspective. Please comment on some of the suggestions below:

Room sizes

13X21X8 Feet
14 X18X8 Feet

windows o.k.
According to Dave Wilson

1. pitch ceiling height lower over speakers, higher over listener
2. Build bass traps into the wall
3. Corner loaded bass traps
4. Bass trap all four vertical corners and the ceiling perimeter corner with a soffit bass trap
5. Room dimensions:
Must over-size room by minimum of 6 inches walls, floor, and ceiling to allow for buildouts for acoustic treatments and sound isolation
A. 13-15 feet wide by 15-23 feet long
B. Room height 7-9 feet
must account for additional height of "floating floor"
C. Wall/stud resonance treatment and constrained layer damping: 1. Sandwich two layers of sheetrock. ? Gyproc Soundbloc 1.5 soundproofing plasterboard 2. Suspend sheetrock off studs by screwing into resilient metal fir strips called "z-metal" or "RC-1" 2. Visco damping material {1/16 " thick double sided adhesive visco-elastic sheet} is applied between the z-metal and the first sheet rock layer and a second visco-elastic sheet between the first and second layers. In place
of double sided adhesive visco-elastic sheet, can 100% glue to both sides a layer of sound board {firtex or celotex}. ? Staggered studs. The ceiling must be treated the same way.
D. Locate entry door behind the listner but on a SIDE WALL {nowhere near the speakers since the door will raddle} NOT ON A BACK WALL AND not flush to the corner and at least 2 feet from the corner. Door cannot rattle? Heavy acoustic door/frame?
E. Windows are very tympanic and should be avoided. Tall narrow windows are best.
Must not use standard thermal type instead use 2 layers of thick laminated glass [like that used for glass shelving in stores] separated by at least 4 inches of air space. The air space must be vented into the wall cavity. Set the glass into a bed of visco-elastic damping material. The glass sheets should be of different thicknesses.
F. Lighting should be subdued, indirect, and dimmable. Do not use standard wall dimmers since they will often hum or buzz. Use a variable voltage transformer. Consider low voltage lighting. Do not use ceiling cans, they rattle. The best light has a ceiling bezel and lens of thick rounded glass. Consider creating a false ceiling to hide projector, cabling, HVAC
ventilation big problem if room needs to be airtight to insure adequate sound isolation and room damping from the rest of the house
G. Address side wall, rear wall, and ceiling reflections which are determined by speaker placement. Room dimensions must account for acoustic panels
dbk
stehno
1,453 posts
 
mikelavigne,

No offense, but with the amount of time and money you've obviously invested in your system and room, no matter what the end results may be, you'd look rather silly if you admitted a bias toward any other path, don't you think?

-IMO
stenersr
84 posts
 
Stehno, give it a rest. Instead of criticizing why not go and learn something. Go measure rooms, if you have the aptitude, and listen. The room was engineered along with the best there is. If you doubt it without understanding what it took to obtain it or listening to the attributes of a proper sounding room then keep it to yourself. Because your "IMO" means nothing and has no contributing factors what so ever. You make the nay-sayers of the world look very optiomistic.
stehno
1,453 posts
 
Stenersr, where did you fly in from? You must be the new bouncer everybody's talking about.

I made no comment whatsoever about Mike's room. In fact, I like it quite a bit and would deem it as perhaps one of the better rooms I've yet seen. But that's just my perception and ultimately I couldn't tell squat without hearing it combined with his Exquisites and surrounding system.

I don't know who you are, but surely you must know that a room is nothing without a system properly set up and perhaps most importanly, a speaker's interaction with the room thru proper placement. Which by the way, far exceeds the importance of a room's acoustics. Not to mention every part of the system first interacting with the speakers.

But all that is beside the point since I made no comment whatsoever one way or the other about the sonics of Mike's room or his system.

And I suggest that before you develop another butt rash, why don't you reread my previous post. What I said there was only meant to be taken at face value.

BTW, I'm awefully curious how you're little behind landed in this thread so quickly after my last post. Please share.

-IMO
mikelavigne
1,274 posts
 
Stehno, as my article and above post spell out.....i do clearly think that if a person has a relatively 'clean sheet of paper' to start with.....getting a single comprehensive professionally created plan makes the most sense for most audiophiles.......and ultimately worth the money. one must choose the budget and construction quality one is comfortable with. the designer can go modest with treatments or exotic. in any case a cohesive plan is best.

i believe trying to assemble an ecclectic assembly of different acoustical treatments and philosphies into a project without a fundamental scientific and experiencial basis does not have a high probability for success. there are many techie audiophiles that do have the knowledge and experience to design their own room......the issue is a true understanding of acoustical cause and effect.

if i did change my mind on my particular audio path (either regarding gear or room design philosphy) i would admit it even if it might be considered silly. in fact; i have changed directions a few times as i have gone down the learning path as an audiophile......i am currently changing speakers from the very simple Kharma Exquisite to the quite complicated Von Schweikert VR9's. turns out the new room really reveals the shortcomings of the Exquisite in low bass performance. i asked the designer to design the ultimate room.....not the best room for my speakers. if the Exquisites are not up to it.....i'll move on.

in the past i've gone from solid state amps to tubes.......from active pre's to passive......from Wilson's to Kharma's.

if, after a time, i have problems with my room acoustics.....i'll change them. all the bass trapping can be closed up completely or partially and dampning can be added or subtrackted......i don't anticipate any need to do these things.....but i am not so ego-invested that i would forgo changes if that was best. i try to keep my mind and ears open.

i am enjoying my journey and hope to keep learning.
stehno
1,453 posts
 
Hi, Mike. Certainly no need to explain and FWIW, your last post seems to be a very sensible position at that.

Perhaps my previous comment sounded a bit sinister and if so, I apologize. But I really did not mean for anything to be read into it other than what it said.

On another note, I was wondering when you'd be changing over to the VS speakers. I heard the Exquisites at your friend's house in Portland.

I don't care what anybody says about their performance, if I could afford them, the Exquisites are the only speaker I'd buy based on their looks alone. (Of course, I'm also quite confident I can make 'em sing like nobody's business.) But I have yet to see a picture do their aesthetics justice.

Anyway, sorry for the comment.

-IMO
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