Genetic differences in turntable design.

I think that there is a further distinction here. Some suspended tables, like the Linn, actually hard mount the motor to the plinth and then have a sprung sub-chassis. The distance from the motor to the sub-platter is constantly changing and likewise, the path of the belt is constantly changing. Conceptually, it is fraught with problems, though still better than a non-suspended, low mass table such as the Rega. The other type of suspended table uses damped feet of some type, like the Oracle. This seems like a pretty good answer in a low mass design. I have a VPI suspended design, but don't use it much any more. Mostly, I use my high mass, non suspended table, after having tried a lot of different designs. My Micro Seiki MR-711 just happens to be direct drive. Here's the link http://de.geocities.com/bc1a69/micro_eng.html
Marty

Twl: Judging all suspended tables on your experience with the Linn's is like saying that all Chevy 'Vette's suck because you used to own a Chevette. Both are "Vette's" and are even made by the same company, but there is a BIG difference in both design and performance. Compared to a VPI, Sota, Oracle, etc..., the Linn is a piece of under-designed junk. I would much rather have one of those "junky" ( according to most audiophiles ) mass-produced direct drive Technics turntables with some modifications and a good arm on it than a Linn. Sean
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PS... Most "Vette's" really are pieces of junk and i'm not talking about "Chevette's" either. I know first hand as i both own one and know a lot of other people that have them. Like the Linn, it is more a matter of image and prestige than it is actual performance and reliability. Save your money and don't buy either a Linn or a Corvette. That is, unless you just like to look at them and / or are a collector. If you actually try to use them on a regular basis, both of them will be a big disappointment.

If I were looking for a new table now, I'd go for one which is :
a) high mass
b) inherently designed to take care of vibrations from the ground

Designwise, the Stabi Reference sets a very high std.
http://www.kuzma.net/stabi_ref.htm
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1001/kuzma.htm

Sean, while I feel some agreement with your statements, surely you must know that I have owned and set-up and listened to many, many different suspended turntables, and unsuspended ones. While all are different, and have their own particular good and bad points, I have come to the conclusion that I did, by my own particular experiences. As I said at the end of my first post, IMHO and YMMV.

I certainly am aware that there are good sounding and performing suspended turntables. Some of the very best ones are suspended, and they do a good job with them.

I am speaking of my preferences for a particular design that, if well executed, I believe can be the preferred type of design, as far as total performance is concerned. Of course, listening environments can vary, and certain compromises may be required to accomodate these things. It is my current view that when the listening environment, including floor construction is correct and optimized, that a high mass unsuspended TT of excellent design can yield the best result.

My statements are not intended to be a "knock" on anyone's turntable, and are purely a statement of my opinions on design parameters.

Tom: I hear you and respect both you and your opinions. I'm also glad that you were honest enough to discuss the shortcomings of a reputable product "point blank". At the same time, i'm somewhat disappointed that you felt the need to be "PC" in terms of offending those that own such a product. Tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. That is, unless you're planning on running for a political office : )

My thoughts are based on the experiences that i've had with Linn's and have been influenced by others that have been Linn owners in the past. I know that my thoughts and experiences of others that i know are not "out of the ordinary" either. I've read reviews where Linn's had tonearms hop, skipping and jumping across the record whereas other "mass produced" tables worked fine in the same environment. Not only are they "tweaky" to set up, they don't seem to retain "calibration" all that well. On top of this, they tend to be very susceptible to ANY type of external vibration, which even you mentioned. As far as i know, reduced susceptability to both floor based and air-borne vibrations would be the very reason why one would want to go to a suspended table.

As such, i consider the Linn an abomination to this type of architecture. It is a product that does not live up to the hype, is poorly designed yet has the reputation of a God. If i can save someone else the trouble of finding out the hard way what an expensive let-down this table is, count me in. I will only add that those that listen to chamber music, mount the table in a separate room, have speakers with no bass output, listen at low volumes or do not move about at all when a record is playing might be happy with an LP-12. That is, if they can get it set up right and keep it that way.

The fact that you are a factory trained "LP-12 tech", knew all of the in's and out's of making them work yet plainly stated that the table was a NIGHTMARE should let others know just what to expect out of this product. Even if one does know and fully understand the "fine art" of getting these tables set-up properly like Twl did, you can still expect the problems mentioned above to some extent.

I'll leave the Linn alone from now on. I think i've said everything that i can say about that table from my point of view. Sean
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