2. analog
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Manners, Eticks & Audiogon --- What do you think???

MANNERS

I am not holding myself out as Mother Theresa, Ralph Nader or Emily Post.....but.
Have any of you folks responded to a for sale ad and never gotten a response? Like even a response of the sort that says: thanks for your interest but the item is sold? Or perhaps: I have changed my mind and my Widget 1.5 (Rev 2) is no longer for sale?

My experience may be atypical, but I find that at least 30% of the folks I have communicated with/attempted to communicate with through the Audiogon eMail forwarding system never respond. And some respond days later. (The majority of folks impress me as passionate hobbyists who are scrupulously honest and could not be more polite.) Do you think there is a problem with the A-gon eMail system and that the mail just doesn't get delivered? Or, merely with the manners of some of the advertisers?

ETHICS

Unfortunately, my impression is that a minority of people here also.....to state it as politely as possible.....take poetic license with the truth in constructing their ads.

Example #1: I responded to a recent (perhaps still current....have not checked) ad which concerned me. The seller/copy writer said that he was selling his component "because of court order." The context in which he made this claim gave the following meaning to the claim: this component works so well that it has caused so much havoc in my environment that people have gone to court and a judge has ordered me to sell my component. I was wondering just what jurisdiction was going to order someone to sell a hi-fi component. . . . as opposed to ordering the person to turn it down after, say, 10:00 PM.

I got an answer from the advertiser. Without directly admitting that he had fudged a bit he made it clear that there was no court order but that neighbors had griped.

What do you folks think? The claim would not be taken seriously by most people, I don't think....but is it okay to make stuff up like that in this collegial form---in a for sale ad? I think it is borderline. But, only because most of us have the good sense to discount or just plain ignore such a claim.

Example #2: This person was offering a component for sale. After an eMail which asked some specific questions this person responded that he had sold an even fancier unit to the owner of the item that was for sale. That he, the advertiser, had offered to sell his customer's former component for him. He did respond to some of the questions. Other questions he just plain did not respond to. Even after two or three follow-up eMails. Of minor concern was his failure to answer a question about the value of a resistor in the component. No "I don't know" or anything of the kind. A polite answer to the eMail but no answer to that question. Of much greater concern: I asked him, since this was not his component was his statement in his ad, to the effect that "sounds wonderful" based on his having hooked it up and listened to it? Did it have any hum or make any funny noises? Once again -- a polite eMail back but the question as to whether this person had any basis for rating the performance of a piece of gear whatsoever --- remained, and still remains, unanswered.

What do you folks think? Is it caveat emptor on Audiogon. Do sellers have a duty to be forthright and answer questions directly and responsively? Is it okay to just ignore a question that you don't want to answer because you don't want to flat out lie and don't want to loose a sale if you tell the truth? Even if the truth is relatively benign like say: I don't know, personally---I am taking the word of the owner?
cloudgif
rosstaman
455 posts
 
It's universal. I feel that customer service (here in the US) has gone dramatically downhill. Very few people go the extra distance to be courteous and helpful.

However, it's been my experience that Audiogoners are the exception. The majority of email and thread responses are extremely helpful and courteous. Sure there are a few annoyances and occasional rip-offs, but for the most part Audiogon members are passionate about this hobby and try not to tarnish their love of music with petty games.
fatparrot
1,314 posts
 
There are some questions that I will just NOT bother to respond to! The one that I absolutely detest concerns auctions that I have posted. "If your item doesn't sell, what will you take for it?" A very fair question, but ONLY AFTER THE AUCTION HAS CLOSED, NOT DURING THE MIDDLE OF THE STILL ACTIVE AUCTION!!! This is a real sleazy maneuver, that puts all legitimate bidders at a disadvantage. You want it, bid on it...or contact me AFTER the auction, if the item doesn't sell. I also try to research an item so I can embellish the good points before listing it for a sale. This involves a call to the manufacturer. I am particularly interested in production changes or modifications during the run of manufacturing. There are often improvements, modifications, or, unfortunately, sometimes a decrease in quality of parts over the years of production. This information may not be a part of the general specs or written reviews of the item. (POTENTIAL BUYERS, GET THE SERIAL NUMBER, AND CALL THE MANUFACTURER!!! You can get a wealth of information from most manufacturers!) So I will spend time and money (long distance phone charges) to get this information, I post it in the ad, and get an email like, "I thought that the Klingon Preamp Supreme uses the same stainless steel chassis as in the standard Klingon Preamp and not a titanium chassis?" Hey, call the manufacturer if you have concerns about the information that I've given! And, of course, the questions come from non-members, or members with no feedback or 1 feedback...window shoppers! Finally, I don't bother responding to lowballers. Hey, the economy isn't wonderful, and pricey luxury items (audio) suffers. Audigon has become a buyers', not a sellers', market. I'll check the bluebook, and usually finding the pricing very optimistic, I go well below the used price. When an item is priced at 50% of list, an email offering me HALF of my asking price (25% of list) never gets a response. I know that people want something better than asking price and I'll entertain any REASONABLE offer, but come on people, let's be serious about a realistic offer! Just my two cents worth...and NO I WON'T TAKE ONE CENT!!! Happy Tunes!
cloudgif OP
19 posts
 
Fatparrot: It is clear that you are a man of principle, honest and diligent and ethical. Your approach to things is a little different than mine. Here is mine: eMail is free.
It does not "cost" anything if you are running an auction to educate someone by writing, "That would not be fair to other folks. If you are interested contact me after the auction closes." Likewise, what is the problem with writing to someone: "My price is fair and your offer is not in the ballpark." Or, "No thanks." It is not only "more polite" it is better business. They might respond by agreeing to your asking price. I may have a blind spot here but it seems as though some folks take what they consider to be a lowball offer as a personal insult. If the question is asked politely (i.e. not something like "Your Klingon preamp is a hunk of junk and I plan on a major modification to the power supply--will you take $5.00 including FedEx overnight to Buffalocrotch Iowa") what is the problem with a reply that takes ten seconds?
john_l
782 posts
 
1st Email:
I'll take it.

2nd Email:
Please remove the case and tell me the model number's of all component capacitors ? Please include macro photo's of each capacitor and resistor. Minimum 4 megapixel. Please don't send Jpegs, tiff Only. Please include factory and date/time of origin (for each). If any discolorations, please explain in detail with notary signature. Also provide photo's of case before and after to verify that no scratches took place.

3rd Email:
Thank you for your kind responses. I offer ONE (1) dollar.

4th Email:
You have not answered my email. It's been TWENTY minutes.
Respond now or before I change my mind and goto best buy !

- internetaudiofreak@aol.com
asa
626 posts
 
"Is the hiend dieing?" There was that thread going for a while, pre-deletion days, that talked about whether behavior like this portended the decline of our hobby. Its just another symptom was my point, this escalating self-interest. I know, I know, nihlistic claptrap, so-called, but there you have it.

Anonymity is the hobgobblin of self-absorbed minds; without the deterrence of society seeing what they do, what they are runs across the audiogon countryside. Doing the "right" thing is an internal compass without external points of reference. These people are external in their orientation - as in, what can I get from what's outside of ME - and when they can operate in an environment where they think that "the others" aren't watching, they misbehave.

But here's the great part. You should actually be damn glad that they have so little restraint when they misbehave and show themselves because that's then just one more bad transaction you avoided.

As for ticking you off, yes, an irritant, but look at it this way: there's always one more coming over the hill and you could spend all your time ticked at each new suceeding inauthentic face if you wanted to. See them, know what they are, step to the left as they greedily run by, and move on...
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