Cable vs. Electronics: biggest bang for the buck

I know this is an audio thread, but, guys who know lots more than me about Jung!! I can't resist an oppotunity to suck some knowledge out of someone else's head!

I certainly can't claim to have read a ton-o-Jung, but my share I suppose.

I see Jung as an individual had had transcedent peak experiences that disclosed to him certain deeper symmetries of perception that are integrated with "normal" cognitive functioning (Piaget's formal operational cognition) but that remain latent (Wilber's Centaur stage of transpersonl developement, which he got from someone else I can't remember); so-called trans-cognitive perceptive levels that are co-existent in operational function with "normal" levels (where ratio-empiric theories come from, BTW). However, his perception was not stable due to significant degrees of remaining "ego distortion" (which I would argue are prey/predator action-recoil reactions manifesting as so-called ego-centric behaviors). This stage of development has certain symptoms: as the cognitive functions move from concrete to systematic (what we are predominantly using here) to meta-systematic to paradigmatic (cognition integrating wider temporalities of human-centered "history") to cross-paradigmatic (temporalities integrating evolutionary span and generally less anthropormorphic) and the mind begins to both reduce and integrate at once, certain perceptions emerge. Namely, moments of perception of connectivity related to matter and change (physical matter/energy's relatiion to experience of temporality), or as Jung described it, "synchronicities". Other possible symptoms of such transitory perceptions are also the ability to watch the mind as it cognitively operates, disclosing archtypal matrices of the mind that, speaking in a collective sense, constitute evolutionarily-formed templates in the mind (and which, if you follow them back, exist after Kant's space/time matrix and Chomsky's language template, or lens, which is a term I prefer).

However, importantly, while these integral perceptions are revealed, and even can be further integrated into a theory on dreams (where the temporal projective force of cognition loosens, revealing "Jungian" archetpes, many times manifesting as mthic-magical images [hence, Campbell also being a Jungian]), these perceptions are not fully integrated into the developmental stage until ego distortions are themselves addressed. Hence, Jung's perceptive applications into theory that were incongruent with his daily behavior...

God! Clueless, please stop me!!! Many many apologies to everyone!

detlof and others who know more about Jung than I do, my apologies for my terminology that may not be the exact ones used by the "Jungian establishment." I think, detlof, you can still hear what I'm saying.

So, what's this got to do with stereo?!!! Well, nothing really, or maybe something. Just let some geeks have some fun for awhile! Be nice, ok...?

BTW, you can see "essense". The assumption that "essense" is unapproachable because you are part of "it" is misplaced and is based upon ratio-empiric perception assumptions. That level says that I can only see (only derive truth from matter mainipulation, hence, science) that is "outside" myself; so, ergo, if I am in it I can't see it. Sounds logical, but the problem is that you don't percieve "it", "it's" essense, with logic, or through the lens of its assumptions. You can percieve "essense"; admit the possibility and from that moment it starts; the denial of the possibility based upon logic exclusively IS the filter to that lens. Saint Augustine said, "close your eyes and step into the dark." The dark is not dark, it is not inherently unknowable, only your assumption makes it so 9argue for your limitations and, sure enough, they are yours...).

Asa, your thoughts on Jung need time and careful consideration. At the moment I have neither. So the answer may come in little pieces. Only your last paragraph: Of course you can know "essence", you are quite right. But you cannot build a scientific theorem (or a religious system?) on that "knowledge", because it is experience , not knowledge in the way we use that term. It is not there to be "exploited" or applied, in the way mathematical formulas can be applied, so I think...and this is not a logic, but a value statement, my original reasoning still holds good.

ds good. He who is tempted to systematise or exploit Agustinus' stepping into the dark

Yes, detlof, all thinking is only pointing, at least at it relates to "essense". But pointing is good, as long as you know you are pointing; as long as you know sytemizing cogniton is pointing at "essense". Its great for making widgets though! And, as i said, it can be fun.

Don't beat me up too much on the jung, ok? Look forward to your thoughts, as always.

BTW, on your first 10-3-02 response to mine and Clueless's yapping: exceedingly lucid and diplomatic, in the best sense of the word. I'm jealous actually; makes my rambling look over-wrought, which, perhaps, it is...

Clueless: one thing I forgot (oh God, NO, he says!!): in first post, "irrelevant" was meant to apply in a different way, not to all science, so to speak. My first post was not meant to be rigorous, but actually, to spark dialogue - which, hmmm, it seems to have done. To all of our benefit, I think. Anyway, I can see how it catalyzed you to jump on it and i would have written it better if I had to do it again. Like I said, we pretty much agree on things, just from a little different tangent of "pointing".

Asa, a wire and an amp do not both 'pass energy'. A wire simply dissipates energy and an amp converts energy from one form to another. Thay aren't really similiar.

steve

Asa--your thoughts on Jung - and since you've brought them up here, ( Arnie please forgive us ) and dear brothers in arms here on A. please have patience - here is an attempt at a response:
Reading between your lines, which essentially and as far as I am able to understand them, are not off the mark, I suddenly have the suspicion, reading your criticism of Jung the man, eg.: " his perception was not stable, due to significant degrees of remaining "ego distortion"..... and later again "--J. perceptive applications into theory, that were incongruent with his daily behavior" , that in your value system, you are either "enlightened" or a "predator", and you ( rightly so of course, if I have understood you correctly) fault both Jung the man and his theories as well, of being inconsequential so to speak. You are right, Jung was neither Buddha or Christ. On the contrary, he wanted to make his place in the world, rise from his small beginnings into the spheres of the haute bourgeoisie and heal the wounds which his psychosis struck him, by turning his expierence into a goldmine of concepts and ideas, which not only was a rather successful and heroic attempt at selfhealing but also laid the foundation for "analytic psychology", the fruits of which obviously give nourishment to many. What started with his "septem sermones ad mortuos" and ended with his dream about a tree bearing fruit frozen, which nourished a multitude of people, one may rightly call a descensus ad inferos, a stepping into the darkness, a road to possible enlightenment on the one hand. His making a professorship out of it, his thirst for recognition, his harem of valkyries, the institutionalysing of it, can be looked upon as a predator's betrayal.
I don't know Asa, if my translation of the feeling content underlying your thoughts is correct. If it is not, you need not to read further. Our concepts of man, obviously differ. Perhaps this is no coincidence, that I give SS a chance next to tubes in opening the road to true musicality, because I hold it with Luke,chaper 16 in the New Testament, that you have to predate on the world, not only to feed you, but more importantly even, to hold your deeper inner treasures safe from the world and alive. I do not see a dychotomy in the two forms of perceptive experience, I see it rather as paradoxical form of existence, which everyone of us must live in, suffer in and balance out for us, as best as we can. We will starve,though obviously on different levels, if we only live one side. Jung, who was not a small man by any means, throws a large shadow, as he once dreamt of himself, but there was also tremendous light behind him, to make that happen. Those who knew him, when he was in the last few years of his life, descibe him as a witty, still immensely curious and lively old shaman, with a trickster's twinkle in his eyes. So I reckon, he must have been fairly content with the balancing act, which was his life. Cheers,