"Trickle up" theory

Perhaps "simpler" really can be "better" and the overcomplication of some expensive items can introduce more problems than it solves.

Many older portables and car systems used single-driver speaker systems with no crossovers. Maybe that had something to do with it. We can see that multi-way speaker systems may extend the frequency range and some IM distortion profiles, but do they sound as coherent as single-driver systems? I think not, in many cases.

Many audiophiles have been touting "short signal path" for years, but many others ignore the idea. Maybe that has something to do with it. Hi-tech solid state amps with high power can certainly play loud and deliver deep bass slam. But do they sound like the simple tube SET designs, which are known for their "magic"? In many cases, they do not.

As far as idler-wheel technology is concerned, if you like it then use it. I feel that the vibration path from the motor to the platter is too direct, and rumble(and other vibration nasties) can become problematic. This is the main reason that it is no longer used on modern hi-end tables. Perhaps if you listened to some of the better belt-drive turntables, you'd find that belt drive can be just fine for timing(at least Linn thought so), while achieving a lower level of rumble and better detail retrieval.

I have always been a proponent of good value for dollar on this website, and laud any movement by members in that direction. However, it cannot be construed that there is no advantage in buying some expensive items. There are some very expensive audio items that will outperform any lower priced over-achiever. And if the buyer percieves that performance level to be what he wants, then he is quite right to purchase it for his system.

For my own system, I have found that "upper middle" level components will generally satisfy my needs, with a healthy dose of DIY sprinkled in to ease the budget.

Johnantais,
See the thread "Preamp Deal of the Century" for lots of commentary, both pro & con, on Supratek.

Spencer

Twl deserves a big thanks for his post. In part, his references to his Berning amps (Micro ZTOL & Holy Grail) were influential in Vetterone's purchase of the ZH270's. He also speaks wisely about crossover free drivers.

Regarding the Supratek line of preamps there is a thread here at Audiogon about "The best preamplifier deal of the century" or something similar. It has over 600 posts. A Syrah, which has a phono stage that will handle ANY cartridge, runs about $2600 plus shipping from Austrailia. This price includes a remote. Maybe someone would be kind enough to post the link to this thread. The website can be found at www.supratek.biz.

I really enjoy my own system because it excells at providing enjoyment with the vast majority of my software. I don't suffer from the "can't stand the recording quality of that LP" syndrome. By inserting the Supratek preamp and the Ridge Street cables into my system all the previous attributes were retained BUT the realism (insert all the audiophile language you want) took a quantum leap beyond anything I could have imagined.

In fairness I must say that there are probably a handful of cable manufacturers of the caliber of Ridge Street, and together these folks may be responsible for much of the improvement I'm hearing in general. I've never been one to praise high priced interconnects until this revelation. It's real and hopefully will trickle down to the average DIYer someday.

Some of the benefits of high priced stuff can be enjoyed by a handy DIYer. Sistrum platforms are wonderful pieces. Making your own, well designed racks and incorporating their Audio Points and Micro Bearing material is a logical route for the frugal minded audiophile to take. Some discussion regarding design of home made pieces that would reap the rewards of using the points and bearing material would be appropriate. Perhaps Twl would provide a primer for such a project.

Anyone have any experience with Transcendent Sound OTL amp kits? These seem to be worthy of consideration and fall within my humble finances.

Twl, good to hear from you again! If you check my original statement, I didn't say all high-end sucks, giving as example the C-J stuff. So yeah, buying an expensive component can pay off, but expense is not an indicator of quality: for that, talent is needed. I am saying that we are often misguided (meaning guided by others to bad decisions: press, manufacturers, peers), and that we should take a closer look at why cheaper equipment is so often more musical. Your thoughts on simpler-is-better are spot on, and we should look closer at this. As to the idler wheel thing, if you check my other thread you will see that I own some "high-end" decks, which is why the idler-wheel drives blew my mind in the first place, as I was shocked to hear an old abandoned technology so easily blow my high-end 'tables (I own a Maplenoll and an Audiomeca, both of which easily blow the Linn in terms of information, which I hasten to add is not everything: I love the sound of classic three-point suspension designs). This discovery was a complete accident, which was heard by a certain millionaire I knew in Europe, who funded my investigations into this with the aim of producing a marketable design: the result being the Lencco/Rega pairing and chassis. But the timing was bad, as at that time everyone was abandoning vinyl (with Shure terminating prodcution and so on) and idler-wheel technology very expensive to implement. The rumble issue, as I've pointed out, is due to poor implementation: just as we now know that a resonant box is a no-no in belt-drive designs, leading to all the exposed subchassis designs, solid plinths and so on here - so this applies doubly to idler-wheel designs, due to the more powerful motors. The fix is cheap and easy: a heavy, solid plinth instead of a cheap resonant one to sink the vibrations. This works very well, even if it seems primitive. The rumble issue is old propaganda/dogma from the days that belt-drives were touted as the new great improvement, which reminds me of the early days when solid-state first appeared, and tubes were dismissed as inferior. Again I point to the revered Sugano, who we must assume had good ears and a revealing system. Your comments are a breath of fresh air, as is your attitude! And I share in your "upper middle level" philosophy, which I follow myself, as I don't like to be distracted by too much information (for instance, I don't want to hear that one of my favourite pieces of music sounds like crap, preferring equipment that strikes a balance in which I can hear the information, which, being an audiophile I love, but which makes all my recordings enjoyable).

Well, John, I have alot of similar feelings with respect to the audio environment, and the confusion that is rampant in the industry. I am hoping that this will settle out, and things will get back to solid thinking that used to be the norm in audio of the past.

Regarding the idler wheel issue again, it is entirely possible that a good implementation of idler wheel technology could yield an enjoyable turntable at a budget. Many times, it is the implementation that makes the difference between designs. Ultimately, the proof is in the listening, and I also prefer musicality(among other things) in my system over an analytical and dry presentation. As long as my listening needs are met, I am not picky about which technology is used to meet them. However, I am technically savvy, and I know which technologies are more likely to be able to meet my listening needs, so I have some certain prejudices, as most of us would. But, an open mind is always an asset, and we should be open to new ideas and concepts that may benefit us.

Keep up the good work.