Turntable or go into SACD, Simon Yorke vs EMM Lab

Dear friends: Yes, the Meitner rig is an exellent product that " totally revitalized de CD option ", period.
But there is no way that these exellent product can beat a good analog system: the problem with the CD reproduction is their limited frecuency response, specially at high frecuencies: no CD player including the Meitner can beat the analog specifically in this frecuency range. If you have a top analog system you can find that it beats easily to the Meitner: this one can't have the openess that have the LP reproduction and the development of the harmonics in the high frecuency range that has the analog system tha's aproach the real music. It is true, through the Meitner the " digital sound " ( that many people like us can identify and that does not like because we know is digital and sound like a false music ) almost dissapear and this is a big step in the right direction.
The problem with " Meitner rig smoked the vinyl rig " that Fbhifi share with us is that his analog rig it is not at the same level than the Meitner: 1. the Manley Steelhead it is not a top phono stage ( it is only a good one ) it function through a internal step-up transformer ( to bad for the analog reproduction. If any of you needs more info please read my answers in this forum ). 2- the Graham tonearm it is not, too, a top contender. This is why the Meitner Smoke........etc.
Now, the SACD and DVD-A really solve the limitations on the CD reproduction, and both formats are a very hard competition with the analog rig, unfortunatelly any of these formats really exist in the market. I agree, that the target on the companies of digital gear is not the sound quality but only convenience and I agree, too, that unfortunatelly we audiophiles/music lovers does not count in the decisions of the comercial bussines.
But something is true: today we have more better options in analog rig: phono cartridges, tonearms, TT, etc... and is in these market where we count. So, we have to let know to the analog product companies that we need that they improve the sound quality reproduction of their products. Some of them are already doing this but not all of them. We can have what we deserve: if we accept that Mr. Manley give to the analog people step-up transformer in their products and Mr. Graham do a bad copy of a Japanese tonearm and don't say nothing about then we are not only against the music reproduction but against the live of the analog time and against our self.
Regards and always enjoy the music.
Raul.

Hi Fbhifi: Your Graham tonearm does not do a good mate with the Dynavector cartridge ( this is a top performer item ) and the " marriage " of this combo ( tonearm/cartridge ) is a critical issue in the music reproduction, the Dynavector likes a high effective mass tonearm. The other critical ( there are many more ) issue is the load impedance for the cartridge.
One of the problems with the analog combo: TT,Phono stage, Tonearm and cartridge, is to know how to do the best set-up, there are many critical issues here: VTA, SRA, VTF, antiskating, azymuth, headshell wires, load impedance, a good mate between tonearm/cartridge, no stepup transformers, etc,..., but if you have and do everything in the right way then there are no single CD player ( including the Meitner ) that can beat the LP reproduction, at least for now. SACD and DVD-A are very competitive with the LP but till now those formats don't ( really ) exist.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

I'm sorry,i just do not believe that Meitner "SMOKED" your $30k vinyl rig !!

I heard Meitner 3 times (at shows only though) in 3 different rooms and systems, it's just not even close to good Analog set-up sound.

Well put Raul,

If Meitner products are as good as mentioned then why are we having a format war, and why are people still purchasing TTs. If the Meitner can make CD sound better (or extremely close) to any other format available, then all the problems are solved. SACD is a moot point. No more format war. Analog has finally been surpased, and is a dead product finally after over 100 years. Thanks to Meitner products.

I don't buy it, but if they came up with a way to soften the digital edge then that's great. And I am looking forward to more improvements to redbook since that is the last hope before mp3s become standard.

If you don't think Mp3 s and other digital none disk formats are the future than you are in a fantasy world. Just look at the trends. CD sales as opposed to I Pod sales CD going down -- I pod and other players are selling like mad. What non audiophile is going to say "gee, I guess I'll trade this little thing that holds 1000+ songs that I can swap on the internet for free or get for a buck a song for a bulky CD player at $15 each to hear 2 songs on a CD I like?

Rob

Hi Raul- I agree completely with your analyisis- in it's entirety! It takes an enormous ammount of experience, time, patience and money to fully and regularly realize the FULL potential in vinyl playback. This a very specialized pursuit for extreme hobbyists. I greatly admire those with the patience to, initially set up and subsequently maintain a vinyl playback system capable of CONSISTANTLY BEATING the Meitner rig. I didn't have that level of constant dedication and, clearly, lacked the requisite knowledge to know I had a cartridge/tonearm mismatch. I guess I find the convenience and the consistent 95%+ performance of the Meitner rig (with 100% being the perfected vinyl setup)to be an acceptable concession.

I am waiting for the arrival of the Meitner DCC2 Dac/Preamp to join my recently received Meitner CDSD Transport. The preliminary reports on the performance of the CDSD suggest an improvement over the Meitnerized Philips SACD 1000, which, with the DAC 6, was my Meitner reference. If, in fact, the new Meitner gear exceeds the performance of the old- might that 5 percentile differential narrow further??