Living with popping and crackling

4yanx, Miles Davis is a great way to demonstate the virtues of vinyl. I always found his muted trumpet to sound harsh on even so-call audiophile cd's. I only heard Miles once on SACD when I demoed it at Sound by Singer in NY. I listened to Sketches of Spain which left me out in the cold compared to my vinyl which is spellbinding. As for the supposed noise issue which Eldartford seems fixated on, perhaps he is not be cleaning properly or has something wrong with his setup. I can't see that the small difference in noise level, even on quiet passages would be an issue to anyone given the other improvements in sound. I have very few Jazz LP's that present any type of objectionable noise level but perhaps its different in the classical realm or his definition of "objectionable" is far more critical than mine. On the other hand, I have several digitally remastered LP's that are dead quiet but not nearly as musically enjoyable as their straight analog counterparts to my ear.

Jyprez...I accept your comment that I am "fixated" on LP surface noise, but I reject your suggestion that the noise is "supposed". This is why I cited (in the earlier post) the many kinds of hardware that the audio community desparately developed to address the problem, before digital came along. Also it is true, as you say, that most Jazz and Pop music is recorded at a constant loud level, which hides the surface noise.

By the way, I hope you realize that ALL of your LPs have very intensive noise reduction in the form of RIAA equalization. Also, all but a few "audiophile" recordings were mastered using Dolby or DBX dynamic noise reduction, compression, and peak limiting.

Perhaps LPs are like saussage...you don't want to watch it being made.

While I may be coming to this discussion a little late, it matters very little to me if some of my vinyl records have noise. If I wanted dead silence, I would listen exclusively to CDs. After 20 years of CD enjoyment, there is no substitution for a good vinyl album; a CD cannot compare in areas of naturalness, warmth, and life-likeness. Many CDs have an electromechanical overlay to some degree. Fine vinyl has soul and body; it's alive. Whereas many CDs lack bloom and air.

To reduce the noise on vinyl, it's been my experience to use one of those recording cleaning machines from Nitty Gritty, Disc Doctor, or VPI. Brushes don't seem to do as well. The surface of each record needs to be cleaned and then vacuumed to remove all the dust particles that will either contribute to noise or to premature record wear. But I think I may be stating the obvious.

Any work of art, any fine wine, or any great musical performance is often imperfect, but this lack of abstract perfection has never kept me from enjoying these experiences. The same is true of vinyl. Certainly vinyl is not as pristine sounding as digital, but neither is it as sterile or clinical either.

Thus, when given the opportunity to listen to a good vinyl album or its CD counterpart, I will always choose vinyl with everything else being equal.

Hi Papertrail
"Is there a certain amount of popping and crackling to be expected with almost any lp?" Well yes and no.
As 4yanx & Dougdeacon mentioned, it really depends on the vinyl and the label. Doug mentions Harmonia Mundi. There are also the Classic Records releases on Quitex vinyl and some of the other reissues of Jennifer Warnes' "Famous Blue Raincoat", Weavers at Canegie Hall, most singles, Janis Ian's "Breaking Silence", Sarah McLachlan(Classic Records) which are also very quiet.

As someone else mentioned, everything in the playback chain affects the noise level - cart, arm, table, phono and most importantly, the setup. One of the key areas which can emphasize the noise is if the VTA is higher at the pivot point. Lowering VTA can help, but too much and the highs are gone.

Record cleaning certainly goes a long way to removing most of the pops and ticks, but if the vinyl is damaged, nothing can be done. In this respect, Buggtussel is very good and recommended.
http://www.buggtussel.com/vinylzyme.asp

"It would seem to me that the more expensive/high end equip. would be more sensitive and thus cause more surface noise if the lp is not perfect."
There was an argument that expensive/high end MC carts can dig deeper into the grooves least damaged by MM carts due to their stylus profiles, etc... How true this is, I don't know, but certainly I find that after a good run through my RCM, the noise level is significantly lower with my MC. Certainly some carts seem to be better trackers than others. Some are more quiet or less affected by surface noise. Perhaps Doug/4yanx can list carts which they have found to be better in this respect.

At the end of the day, there is a certain amount of raw energy in LPs which cannot be matched by CD/HDCD/DVDA/SACD. Though the latter is bridging the gap, I still enjoy LPs tremendously. Its learning to cope with vinyl and maintaining it which allows me to enjoy the music even more.

What noise? Oh that noise. I didn't notice. I was into the music.

Listening to LPs (music) = bliss
Listening to your system and evaluating how good it sounds = pops and cracks