What do you do when nothing seems to get LP clean?

Doug, thanks on behalf of many of us all for that very considered post. Your concerns reflect some of mine concerns and, from the correspondence I’ve received lately, I realize that while I may be one of the few to “vocalize” them, there are a number of others whom share them.

The discussion of enzyme reactions in a vinyl cleaning fluid contains salient issues and is not limited to one product or another – there are a few enzyme-based fluids out there. Based on my research, I found it on point that you divide the discussion into cause and effect AND a separation between whether a certain enzyme might cause permanent, irreversible damage, once applied, and whether the damage might occur only if the certain enzyme were not fully and thoroughly removed.

Let us just say for argument’s sake that whatever enzyme used as an ingredient can do its duty without damage to any composition of vinyl in most any record during a short exposure and can then be thoroughly removed – stopping its active process and without leaving any sort of residue . I am not convinced that the enzyme(s) used in some fluids would pass such a test because I don’t see any evidence of such being thoroughly tested, but let’s assume that it is so.

This leaves the whole process of complete rinsing and removal/neutralization (leaving aside your possible concern of using alcohol as a neutralizer). What of the brushes used in the cleaning process? Cross-contamination? Use of separate brushes only to be used with the enzymes? Alcohol or other rinse for brushes, tubes, wands, etc. before each pass, each record?

It also leaves the whole point you mentioned with respect to “future shock”. Some folks may not notice a gradual or eventual change in sonics, especially if they are limited only to certain HF modulations, etc. Based on your attention to detail, I’m thinking that you would! :-) While record cleaning fluids have been around for a long time, there seems to be a particular spate of efforts in the past five years or so to keep making improvements and provide a miracle washing cure in the face of the increasingly growing interest in vinyl. This can be good and bad. My ONLY concern is that such products, whoever produces them, undergo rigorous testing so that one can at least feel reasonably safe in their usage. Of course, this level of confidence will vary from user to user, and that’s okay.

Thanks for adding to the disussion!

Hey, no number V.

Anybody want me to write some more? :-)

I've mentioned before that certain concerns may be valid. I just don't know the answers and I doubt the manufacturers could answer them to anyone's complete satisfaction without disclosing the recipe. Also, anonymous attacks are childish.

Buggtussels Vinyl Zyme has been available for a number of years. Does anyone know of negative comments about this particular product? I'm curious. I've Googled this to the point where I don't think there is a negative review. So, since there aren't that many different types of natural enzymes I would think that we should look for criticism of Vinyl Zyme.

I realize I'm looking at this whole issue more simply than David or Doug but my viewpoint is based on what my records have been exposed to through my 35 years of collecting and caring for records. I'm not a newbie to vinyl and didn't abandon my records in the 80's like so many did. I started cleaning my records in the 60's with a tap water damped round felt unit made by Watts. By 1970 I had discovered inner and outer aftermarket record sleeves. I adopted Diskwasher cleaning in the 70's and had my entire collection cleaned in the late 70's by a Kieth Monks. At that time Kieth Monks simply supplied a recipe for a cleaning fluid which was about 50% alcohol and 50% distilled water. I eventually purchased my Nitty Gritty RCM and used their products but was not pleased with the results. I went back to the Kieth Monks recipe in various mixes until I bought RRL products recently and now the AIVS solutions. I wouldn't doubt that some of my records have been subjected to every fluid i've mentioned here. Since I've seen or heard no degradation of any of my vinyl library I'm just not concerned. Of all the produts I've used I will say that Diskwasher fluids were the worst with the Nitty Gritty cleaners coming in a close second.

My experience constitutes empirical data over a long enough time for me to have reached my comfort level with the AIVS stuff. I'd like to know your thoughts on my experiences. Also, again, what do you have to lose with an otherwise unplayable record.

I quite agree with Lugnut when he asks, "what do you have to lose with an otherwise unplayable record?" What indeed? The kind of record Stew described is exactly what I'd use AIVS on.

As far as Buggtussel/Vinyl-Zyme goes, I'm not sure it does that great a job and it may leave a sonic signature. I've only used it once or twice but those are my recollections. I've got some moldy and getting moldier LPs in a box in the garage. Good candidates for a Buggtussel vs. AIVS shootout. My money's on the AIVS.

I can't speak to the Buggtussel in particular, either, mine was more a question of enzymatics, in general.

Patrick, I agree with your "what to lose on an unplayable record" question, too. But, when was the last time you saw that qualifier as a marketing or advertising boast and how many general browsers for vinyl cleaning fluid are even going to imagine there'd be such a distinction? Granted, if certain prducts move from the "use them on all your of vinyl without worry" to "use on otherwise unplayable records as a last resort", I might try some of them myself. I'd just hope that such a distinction would be clear to everyone with concerns.