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Rocky return to vinyl

I've recently moved from an integrated amp with no phono stage (Jolida 302B) to monoblocks and a preamp with phono -- Marantz 2s with a Marantz 7 pre. I've had an old Rega Planar 3 in retirement for a long time. It has what I gather to be the less respected RB200 arm, and I got a Shure M97xE, based on recommendations here at Audiogon. Most of my collection now is CD. My LPs are mostly high school stuff, and I got the inexpensive Shure just to take a small step into the world of vinyl with my new-to-me Marantz amps. As it so happens, the one LP I have that I also have a CD copy of is Earth, Wind, and Fire -- an anamoly in my listening, but fun and the CD sounds pretty good. (I have a Music Hall CD25.) Now, when I converted to tubes a couple of years ago, I got the impression my preference for tubes probably would translate into a preference for vinyl. And it still may. But I was VERY disappointed when I put on that LP. The instruments sounded muddled and congested, especially in direct comparison to the CD. I've tried a couple of more albums, but they all fall way short of what I'm used to from my decently recorded CDs.

I'm assuming the most common response I'm going to get here involves my spending several hundred dollars. But could I just be missing something basic? Should the difference with this Rega/Shure setup be THAT different from the Music Hall CD player?
judasmac
robm321
932 posts
 
I think it would either be your TT setup or the fact that a recording on vinyl that is mediocre will usually sound bad. In my experience, LP's are either very good or very bad. CDs tend to be more forgiving on mediocre to bad recordings.

A well-recorded LP is still the king. Nothing can match it. That's why people go through all the setup and inconvenience that is involved.

I think you need to buy more LPs - old (probably scratched and dirty) high school LPs aren't going to give you much. Buy LPs from companies that are releasing quality pressings and try them. If it still sounds bad, then it's your equipment/setup. If they sounds good, then you may end up using your CD player as backup as I do.

Rob


Rob
jayboard
301 posts
 
Ditto to Rob's comments. I have many older rock/pop LPs that just aren't recorded very well. Many of those have a rolled-off, congested sound, like you describe. OTOH, some of my older LPs sound very good. So, do make sure you try a variety of LPs, and maybe try some audiophile-type pressings, before drawing final conclusions. BTW, to me, one of the virtues of vinyl that seems to come through regardless of the overall quality of the recording is that the contours of notes, how they rise and fall, sounds natural.

Other than that, VTA is definitely something to play with, as Spooky suggested. The core of my TT is an old Planar 3 like yours. It came with a thick-ish (maybe 3/16") felt mat. I switched to a thinner felt mat, which definitely opened things up. (I use a different mat now, but there's nothing wrong with felt, and you may be able to find a thinner one for little or no money.) Also, putting my Planar 3 on a good vibration control device also made a significant difference in openness and clarity. This is running into real money, but probably less than stepping up in the level of cartridge or tonearm you have.

Best of luck!
hudsonho
7 posts
 
I have to echo this pov. I've had an identical experience with early-mid 70s soul albums specifically Stevie Wonder where the vinyl sounds compressed andd muddy in comparison to the CD. The CD versions have been completely remastered and therefore sound much more open and transparent.

However, if you can get a copy of a mid 80s album where the CD and vinyl were made from the same master you should easily hear the superiority of vinyl. A good example of this is Sade's Diamond Life debut.

I also have Rega gear for my comparison, P25 vs. Jupiter 2000.
judasmac OP
25 posts
 
All right, after having let my TT sit there in frustration for a few weeks, I went out and bought some LPs. Used, but seemingly in good shape. The first thing I put on was an album I hadn't know about -- Helen Merrill and John Lewis from 1976, i think. A big, big improvement in sound. Merrill's voice (as usual) sounded gorgeous. Most of the others sounded very good too, though there were a lot of pops and crackles on some of them.

So I'm still in the hunt. Now, the pops are quite annoying, and I assume that they are either the result of dirt or damage, and I won't know which until I clean them. Correct? Folks around here seem to strongly urge a vacuum record cleaner. Fine. I found a link to a DIY cleaner that was basically an old TT with a canister vacuum cleaner and a modified crevice tool.
http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/cleaner/cleaner.html
Any experience with this or something similar? Any reason I couldn't pick up an old TT, buy a crevice tool to fit my Sears vacuum, modify it, and save the money on a Nitty Gritty?

Now, apart from cleaning, the question is what to try next to improve the sound, which could still be improved quite a bit, I suspect. I'll try some of the tweaks and adjustments recommended in the thread above.

Why the hell does Rega make its arms without adjustable VTA??
c123666
871 posts
 
Because the arms are made to be good performers but cheap. Anyway, the RB200 might be a good arm for a lower compliance cartridge like a Denon DL103R. Or, a Dynavector 10x5 (high output).

Do a surf for "Last Record Cleaner"; their products are supposedly very good. And, no record cleaning machine. Just lay it one a nice soft towel and hand wash them. Go find the company and read the information.

Nitty Gritty has been recommended to me a several people if you do want a machine but not one that takes up a LOT of space like the VPI and Clearaudio units.
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