Turntable, Vinyl help................please

First, welcome back! I've been doing vinyl again after a 15 year absence. Other than the preoccupation with these audio sites that developed when I started seeking info, the habit has been pure pleasure. Now, I want ot say that anyone who says you "need" or "must have" an expensive record cleaning machine isn't using those words carefully. None of these items in this hobby is a "need." They're all "wants" and they feed our desires. I've been cleaning records with one of the homemade brews recommended here, using a magic brush to scrub and lint-free cloths to wipe. I've invested perhaps $15 and I've found that this works very well to improve the sound on about 90% of the records I have. The rest are in worse shape and still sound noisy after repeated cleanings. Those I toss. Then I look for replacements on the used market. If it's an LP I truly WANT, I pay premium for it. Otherwise I wait until another cheap one comes along. That's the way, for example, I came upon a $1 copy of Robert Palmer's Sneakin Sally Through the Alley that is pristine and wonderful. Same with a $.50 copy of Schumann's Cello Concerto with Leonard Rose. To me, this is a far better use of my time and money than forking over hundreds of dollars for an audiophile record cleaning machine. Good luck with the vinyl. Enjoy!

As Winegasman said, welcome back! The vinyl revival lives and grows. You won't regret it, though your bank balance might!

Scratches, unless they're truly Grand Canyon like, will wear your stylus only slowly. Not a big concern. Of course it would be better to find a clean copy of that record. Depending on what you listen to there's often tons of used vinyl out there.

I strongly agree with Lugnut and Sbank. A good record cleaning regimen is essential, and that means some kind of vacuum cleaning. This can cost anywhere from $50 for a DIY to $2K or more for a truly topnotch unit. You don't need to spring for one of the top machines, but you absolutely must spring for something. This is not optional.

Surface noise and deteriorating records are the reason many people (including me) dropped out of vinyl when CD's became available. Progress in the last 20 years has been phenomenal though, particularly in cartridges and cleaning machines. The cleaning machine is more important. Without one you damage your records with every play. The best rig and cartridge in the world won't make a damaged LP sound good.

Speed stability in a turntable is vital. Without it music has no life, no punch and instruments just don't sound real. This is why Psychicanimal pushes direct drive and/or idler wheel drive. At entry level price points those technologies do speed stability better than most belt drive tables. Some entry level belt drives are excellent of course, perhaps most notably the Nottingham Horizon. If you can stretch your budget to $1200-1500 for table and arm, a Horizon or Horizon SE with Rega RB-250 arm would be a huge improvement over an MMF-5.

Regards,
Doug

I must respectfully disagree with Dougdeacon's use of the phrase "entry level" in reference to a $1,000 turntable. $1,500 exceeds the annual income of many citizens of small nations. "Entry level" might be more akin to the $50 or so that you might spend on a used Dual table in good working condition. I spent $35 on a functional Yamaha table 2 years ago to see if I still liked the flavor of vinyl after 15 years. When I decided I did, I read up some, decided that used Thorens seemed to have a reliable track record, and started keeping my eyes open. A few weeks later I bought a Thorens TD-320 for $199. I've had various carts on it, and have settled on a lightly used Grado Reference Sonata that cost $225. I took the table to a technician who lubed it, changed the belt, and replaced the stock (deteriorating) RCAs with Audioquest interconnects. This set me back about $120, including interconnects. I'm sure that this rig is not the last word in timing or detail or PRAT or whatever other categories of expectation audiophiles can come up with. But it sounds remarkable to me and to friends who hear it and, on my real-world middle-class budget, it doesn't break the bank. When people throw out the phrase "entry level" in reference to $1K or more pieces of equipment they're (a) not using the words accurately, and (b) scaring away people who it would make more sense to encourage. After all, the more people on the vinyl bandwagon, the more likely that LPs and equipment will be plentiful.

The Creature (Technics SL-1200MKII thru V) is definitely not entry level. Its beef to price ratio is high because it trickles down technology (and the R&D money) used to produce a state of the art quartz locked record cutting lathe--a lathe that is still used in the majority of current vinyl productions. With some readily available modifications from http://www.kabusa.com the deck is up there in the multi thousand dollar ($4-5K) performance for around $900.

The Lenco idler wheel deck project uses a classic deck with some modern plinth refinements/tonearm changes which take it to high end performance.

Belt drive units simply cannot compete because of sheer volume. Still in the $2,000 range it's impossible to get a decent combination of speed stability, good tonearm and plinth. Just read the Vinyl Asylum archives and read the complaints. The last one I read was a Gyrodec owner complaining of speed instability!

Speaking of salaries, it is pitiful to watch job postings for $5-6/hr for skilled jobs here in the US Caribbean. Should be illegal. Oops, that sounded socialist!

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Winegasman,

Sorry if I inadvertently pushed some button, but while poverty is important raising it on this thread was irrelevant. Ev314 did not ask, "Should I buy a $600 turntable or donate the money to UNICEF."

Whether you like it or not, most rigs that retail new for $1K or less in 2005 dollars are entry level in audiophile terms. I also own one and that's just reality. It's not a bad rig but compared to my main rig it's - well - entry level!

We're on Audiogon, not the Walmart forum. Entry level here does not mean junk. Entry means the door is open. I suppose some few might still take that as a reason to despair, and to avoid getting back into vinyl altogether because they can't go out and buy a Walker Proscenium. But you, Ev314, I and most other vinyl-philes can and do take it as a challenge to get the most one can with the resources available. You had the good sense and inclination to maximise your dollars by choosing used equipment and refurbishing as necessary. Give other budding vinyl-philes credit for the same initiative you displayed. They won't disappoint you.