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Need a system for Chamber music--ideas?

My current system does well with larger scale works - orchestral, choral, etc, and also with solo works. Where it struggles is with chamber music. String quartets in partiuclar are a problem. It is essentially impossible to distinguish between the 1st and 2nd violins. Maggies are always going to struggle with this due to the side by side arrangement of the ribbon tweeters with the midrange panels. I could go two ways.
1. A completely distinct system in another room, using monitors. If I go this way, I might like a reccomendation on a tube integrated to pair with the speakers, and the speakers should be able to go close to the wall for flexibility. A concern here would be decent reproduction of piano-- don't want to create a new problem in listening to piano trios etc. I'd probably like to stay under 7K for the amp and speakers new or used.
2. A set of floor standing speakers or monitors to swing into place in my current system for listening to chamber. They should be below 80lbs each to facilitate moving. The maggies are going to stay for large scale works. I'll keep the current system in place, so the floor standers should work well (at least initialy) with high powered SS amps like my Cary 500.1's. Again, 7K-10K, new or used. Accurate timber and coherence, especially with violins, are imperitive. It will not be necessary for them to play above 90dB. Also, the speakers must be able to throw a convincing stage for string quartets. Speaker placement will be along a short wall in a 15.5 x 19 x 8' room. I do like the sound of Sonus Fabers. Might be open to Dali's. Wilsons in this price range are out, and I don't like Dynaudio, Theil, Aerial 7T's. Haven't heard Ref 3A Grand Veenas or Merlins but you hear good things about them. I will not buy speakers unheard, so I'm wanting to generate a list of speakers to audition. When I bought my maggies it was a 2 year process. Your thoughts please?
brownsfan
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roscoeiii
1,155 posts
 
KEF LS50s are getting a lot of good press lately. I have a pair on the way and can report back. But a KEF with the UniQ driver could be work looking into.
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mapman
15,679 posts
 
IT's also a good point that experimentation with the placement of the Maggies in the room along with corresponding sweet spot might get you further towards what you seek, maybe completely. I've owned Maggies and proper placement is critical for good imaging and soundstage. IT usually involves significant distance from rear wall, 1/3 to 1/2 room length possibly, more so than most speakers. THere are some good threads here on A'gon that discuss some seemingly esoteric but effective speaker placement options for planars in particular that are worth knowing about.

I first heard Maggies in Jim Smith's shop called "Audition" I believe in Birmingham Alabama years ago. Those (Placed well into the room away from rear wall) were probably the best set up Maggies I have ever heard still to date. I bought a pair on the spot! JS is an acknowledged expert on getting the best sound out of most any gear. HE has a good book available that might be of value there if optimizing your Maggies performance is of interest.

Also always a good idea to have a reference recording that in fact contains the sonic aspects you seek. You can't get it if its not there to start. Recordings all vary. Make sure you have the right reference recording for what you are looking for. Many recordings on Dorian and Mapleshade labels in particular are very good (often "magical") in regards to 3-D detail, imaging and soundstage.
brownsfan OP
1,238 posts
 
Onhywy and Mapman, The room is 19 ft long, with the Maggies out 60" from the back(short)wall. My listening position is back as far as I can go, which means I'm about 12' from the speakers. I have Smith's book and found it useful. Interesting point on the concert hall experience. Its pretty much always the same crowd, same people in the front at every concert. A lot of the early quartets were written for very small rooms. The conversation between the instruments was a substantial part of the music. For me, sitting back further in a larger venue looses this aspect of quartets from the classical era. Orchestral (symphonic) arguably should be "together heard" as you are suggesting, but I'm not so sure this is what Haydn and Mozart had in mind for their quartets.
Mr. Tennis, No problem distinguishing (spacially or otherwise) the viola from the violins. The viola is (usually) far right, and the violins far left and left center, with the cello right center. Most of my recordings appear to be close miked. I can't think of a single string quartet recording that gives a mid hall perspective. This is part of the problem. The rather clear spacial distinction between the viola from the cello, the cello from the violins, and the viola from the violins, fails with the two violins.
My point with sitting front and dead center in a live concert was to determine what it might be possible to hear in a close miked recording if the system were ideal. If what I am seeking is not obtainable live, then perhaps I shouldn't be trying to recreate it.
learsfool
1,206 posts
 
Another idea would be to go old school - pair something from the Klipsch Heritage series, say the Cornwalls or Fortes or Hereseys with a nice tube integrated. I am listening to the Brahms Piano Quintet on my Cornwalls, which are driven by a PrimaLuna Dialouge 2 as I type this. A set up such as this definitely meets all of your stated criteria, at quite a bit under your stated budget.
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whart
1,930 posts
 
Brownsfan: given the nature of the material, Quads would be ideal. And not necessarily new ones. I've owned Quads since 1973, in various iterations, and still have an early pair of the original ESLs as well as a pair of Crosby modified 63's. I haven't listened to them in a while, since i switched to a horn based system back in 2006.
I was stunned at how good a (restored) pair of the original ESLs sounded in Robin Wyatt's room at the Waldorf back in April 2012. He was using a pair of smallish tube amps and a Charlie King built preamp made from old Levinson parts. Granted, the source was tape, which was peerless, but the string tone and elucidation was beyond reproach. The normal caveats about the original ESL are also not problematic given the program material you want to use this system for- the lack of deep bass, the limitations in dynamic range, and the relatively narrow sweet spot. But, man those things are good. Not sure what you have in mind for source and preamp- perhaps the same gear you use for your current system- but worth hearing a good pair. And you can get in (and out)* of them pretty easily if they were properly restored.

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*Most people who have owned the original ESL usually regret selling them and often buy another pair. They should be set up a little higher than the factory feet allow, and placement in the room is critical. They also seem to like small tube amps. My impression- not necessarily shared by others- is that the original ESL's midrange is better than the later 63, even my Crosby version, though the latter is not as constrained in bandwidth or dynamic range. I haven't had hands-on experience with the latest Quads, so my comments don't necessarily apply to the current models. Plus, the old ones are a classic.
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