I can't really hear a big difference


Some of you might think I'm crazy, or deaf...

BUT..

I just got a BAT VK D5SE, used, for a good price. I eagerly set it up, and compared it to my current CD changer (cost me abourt $200), a Sherwood Newcastle CDC 680.

The bass is fuller on the BAT, voices seem a little bit more smooth, but basically it sounds very similar, if not identical in some places to the Sherwood. I mean, it's HARD to hear the difference. The BAT also sounds softer, like the volume is turned down a tad.

My other components are: ML Aerius i, VTL IT 85...

When I upgraded my amp from an NAD 340C to the VTL IT 85, the difference was mind blowing. I mean, HUGE HUGE HUGE. This, costs just as much (even though I bought it used, and the VTL NEW!), and has hardly done much at all!!
128x128dennis_the_menace
I agree with those that say you need to live with the new CD player for a while. When you switch back to the cheap player, you will notice the change more. It may be something big, or as simple as listener fatique from the harshness of a cheap player. Most likely the change will be in the little things that add up to a lot.

Secondly, I agree with Bob on cables. $25 cables are a choke point. It is like putting cheap $25 tires on a Porsche. With cheap tires, a Porche will perform like a Chevy Cavalier.

My experience with CD players is that the average ones sound like average ones. When you hit a really good one, you will know it instantaneously.

Having said that, i have to agree with several of the points made above.

1) Each component will only be as revealing as the system will allow it. As such, putting low grade gasoline that is equivalent to piss into the gas tank of a Ferrari will only net you the performance of a Yugo. I would venture to say that the interconnect that you are using ( probably Acoustic Research ) is killing the performance potential of the player. You do need a better set of interconnects. However, putting a brand new set of interconnects, especially silver which takes longer to break in, into the system may COMPLETELY skew the systems characteristics for a long period of time.

2) Digital gear takes a certain amount of time to fully settle in. As such, i recommend leaving it on 24 / 7 and giving it a few days before really passing judgment.

3) Tubes also take a bit of time to settle in. As such, this further reinforces point 2 in your specific situation.

4) Digital gear, especially cd players, transports, dac's, etc.. seem to be quite sensitive to power cords. While i am not suggesting that you should rush out and buy a high dollar power cord, i am saying that a good power cord can actually clean up what you are hearing and produce a more liquid presentation.

5) The old saying "you don't know what you've got until you lose it" can be very true with audio gear. Give yourself some time to acclimate yourself with the BAT in your system once it has fully settled in and then pass judgment on it. It may take you some time to fully realize / hear all of the subtle detail that you are hearing with it. Once you've reached that point, try going back to your Sherwood and see if you can hear a difference. To be fair though, have your Sherwood "warmed up" for several hours before putting it back into the system. If you can leave it plugged in and turned on in a different part of the house prior to putting it back into the system, that would be best. For this "test", pick a few good tunes and concentrate on how each player presents them to you. The better your listening skills, the more obvious the differences should be. This is not to say that one will be "better" than the other, just that i'm betting that they will at least be "different".

6) Experimenting with tubes can definitely bring about differences in tonal balance, amount of detail, noise floor, etc... As such, i would ONLY go this route if you can hear a noticeable improvement with the BAT after doing an A/B test with the Sherwood as mentioned in point 5. If the test in point 5 confirms that you don't hear a worthwhile difference after you've got the system fully dialed in with the BAT and cable situation taken care of, i would suggest selling the BAT and living with the Sherwood so long as it makes you happy. While the Sherwood is surely not as impressive in terms of reputation or looking good on a system list, the money recouped from selling it can be put to use in a manner that does bring about an improvement for you or put towards more music.

Good luck and keep us posted. Sean
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I own a VK-5se and I'm very happy with its performance.
Mine was also used and had to go thought some hoops.
I had two tubes loose from shipping and swiched balanced
innerconnects several times before I was happy. Also you might
remove one of the feet and place one in middle so you are using three feet(nordost points worked well for me). Not sure why but made a noticeable difference. Also the lense could have a film
on it. I'm not saying is everything(I just ordered a aero audio)but I have no intention to sell it either. Is yours
the 24 bit version? It should say on the back.
Dennis - My take on audio gear has always been that if I'm "upgrading", the change should be very noticeable and much better - as you say, nobody would suggest this is not an improvement. I'm not searching for that last .1%, at least at this point in my life, but I'm willing to drop the $$$ on something that is clearly an improvement and have done so multiple times.

With a very good set of speakers, changes to amps and preamps (and certainly from receiver to decent separates) were of the can't-miss-the-improvement variety. Some were jaw-dropping, some were significant, and some were just nice improvements. Many "upgrades" didn't produce the sense of clear improvement. This is always disappointing, but the piece gets sold and I move on.

I tried several different CD player and DAC upgrades to no avail - I didn't even think they sounded different, much less better. There was no way I thought I could tell the difference a/b'ing them. Again, this is not comparing them over a month with very detailed listening - this was going back and forth over an evening or two, so I'm not saying there was absolutely no difference or improvement, just that it was more subtle than I was going to worry about.

Several months ago, Muse's Model 9 DVD player started showing up used at very good prices. I had read many reviews that raved (and then some) about the performance of this player. I've always liked Muse's philosophy and reputation. And, I want the best sound I can have without having two dozen boxes to get it, and since I really like HT too, I thought that if this was an excellent CD player (which is what the rave reviews focused on), then it was a near-perfect addition as it would be dual-purpose.

So I bought the Model 9 and put it in my system. This time, there was definitely a noticeable difference. Switching back and forth between it and my Sony DVD-S7700 as a transport into a highend processor, the Muse was much smoother and more musical. Playing some Coleman Hawkins, there was no doubt that the Muse made it sound more like a real saxaphone.

What was interesting to me about this, in addition to the number of strike outs I had experienced in the same arena, was how much more difficult it was to describe this improvement. Every other time I had upgraded, I had no doubt that an open-minded, but uninterested, by-passer would admit that the upgrade made the system sound better, even if they thought the price was crazy. I'm not sure that this would be the case with the Muse upgrade, though I have no doubt that anybody who has ever had an interest in music playback would readily identify it as a significant improvement.

Anyhow, there are a bunch of reasons why the BAT might not be able to show it's true colors to you, but there are also many of us who have experienced the same thing. I'm not as persistent as many on this site, but I wouldn't spend a lot of time with it if you find it basically disappointing at first blush - sell it and move on. Just my opinion. -Kirk