Universal Players that do not convert DSD to PCM?

Seantaylor99: "Aren't ALL digitally recorded SACDs originally recorded in PCM then converted to DSD during mastering? Do any digital multitrack recorders and mixers run natively in DSD? I thought they all ran 24/192 (or 96kHz) PCM.

The DVDA standard (PCM) is theoretically a higher resolution standard than SACD (DSD) so if a player converts DSD to PCM (DVD-A) then that should not be detrimental."

There are DSD recorders and they DO NOT start in PCM. I read somewhere that DSD's native sampling rate is something like 2.4MEGA Hertz! DSD is a delta- ( or 'difference'-)sensing system and records the difference between this and the last sample. PCM converts the entire sample into a digital representation and requires lots more digital resources than DSD's delta sampling.

Personally, I try to stay away from DVD-As or SACDs, both of which are highly listenable formats IMO, that were recorded in the other format. EVERY conversion has to remove some of the information or it wouldn't be called sampling.
.

Eldart,

You would be surprised to find out how many music (and mastering) studios did NOT rush out and by PCM gear! Analog is pretty ok.
Most music studios today will still mix on an analog desk, SSL or NEVE, and sourcre from PCM or analog.

There is no professional DSD mixing solution.
The only PURE DSD is the SONY Sonoma Workstation. (8 Ch).
There is only a few of those around.
This is a complex topic,I was personally involved with a high channel count DSD mixing solution, that found no market. Doing DSD is super expensive at this point since traditional DSP chips are illsuited for the task.

Now, there are still planty of people who record analog.
The best (pop) SACD's I have are all sourced from Analog. Tracked analog mixed analog and EVEN mastered analog, then turned to DSD at the last step.

For popular music where you need high channel count, you can use an analog desk and analog recorder. For classical and jazz you seldom need more then 8 tracks for a good recording. So there are ways to make DSD that has not touched PCM. And indeed these will sound the best.

I can't argue the Analog, PCM DSD thing anymore. I've been there and done it many times over. For those who want to argue the difference, please list your qualifications or experiences first.

If you are serious about your DSD, better get a player that does not convert.

Correction, to be fair. The sony worksation was never for sale. Sadie is realy the only true DSD workstation.
There is also DXD from Merging, but it is essentially 384khz PCM NOT dsd.

Jeff ... thanks, I understand that DSD is a delta-sigma modulation. Don't be fooled that its high sampling rate makes it superior to DVD-A because delta-sigma convertors require a MUCH higher sampling rate than PCM systems so that they can track a high slew rate in the signal with their single bit. DSD and PCM have different shortcomings, though both should be audibly superior to redbook CD.

Metralla ... you may have said "please", and "regards" but your post was still unnecessarily curt and condescending, and your followup post contained virtually no extra information, links etc. If you're going to denigrate others at least have the grace to educate us.

Iszak ... 2" 24 track onto 1" analog master is great for sound quality ... I agree. DSD direct off the analog master will be fine quality. I suspect that a DSD from a 24/96 or 24/192 PCM would also be pretty fantastic. Older ADCs are probably less good.

And you still need good mics, placement, a good room, and an engineer who doesn't feel the need to use every single piece of rack equipment to perform the mix. These things make more difference than the whole analog/PCM/DSD issue, but are often overloked by the audio crowd.

Izsakmixer...Thanks for reminding us that analog masters are still around. In fact very many brand new SACD (at least in the classical area) are reissues of historic performances from as far back as 1959 (Bruno Walter/Columbia Symphony/Mozart Symphonies 38 and 40 is one I just bought). However, in all cases that I know of the multitrack analog masters have been digitized, often "cleaned up" in ways that can only be done in the digital format, and mixed in digital format. Digital recording and mixing was with us for LPs, so I recon there must be a lot of digital studio equipment around.