How do Newforms sound?

Pull your throttle back a little, Fiddler.

I'm sure we are all pleased to learn of your affluence but that is beside the point.

It is a simple fact of life that people either like what they buy or they get rid of it. Thus, most people who post to specialty groups already like their gear. I'm interested in hearing from people who have no such vested interest.

In contrast to your gratuitously nasty post, several members of the Yahoo Newform group have written privately to me. They have been extremely helpful, though none of them has been impartial, all being deeply committed to their speakers of choice.

You could learn from their courtesty and helpfulness.

My first response, "this post is stupid", was not directed at Will's first post. It was directed at Will's second post.

"I'm not much given to relying on opinions from owners' groups--they have a vested interest in liking what they bought."

Yes, owners do have a vested interest, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will have a "favorable" bias toward what they own. If that statement were true, there would be very few used speakers on the market. Many of the speakers that are sold "used" are sold because the owner is unhappy with some aspect of the speaker.

There is probably no better group of people to ask about any product, audio or otherwise, than owners. I had rather have feedback from someone who has lived with equipment over time rather than from someone who has only demo-ed speakers in an audio shop or simply heard them at a friends house. One should also be smart enough to temper both the raves and rants with a healthy dose of skepticism, regardless of the source.

And Will, you completely misinterpreted my remark about being able to afford any speaker I want. It was not to make a point about my affluence, but it was rather to say that I felt so strongly about this "bargain" speaker, that I didn't care how much it cost. IMHO, it is one of the best sounding speakers out there at any price. My endorsement of the 645's wouldn't be as significant, if for example, I could only afford speakers that cost $2,500 or less. The fact that I can afford speakers that cost significantly more, and I still chose Newforms, is theoretically a more significant endorsement.

And your remark:

"And the opinions offered on sites like audioreview often lack weight and expertise."

simply smacks of arrogance.

Certainly there is a percentage of neophytes at AudioReview, but you will find them here too. The way to evaluate reviews at AudioReview, in my opinion, is to look at the reviewers associated equipment, as well as what equipment they have previously owned. Weigh these factors with a good dose of skepticism and you might just learn something from these "lightweights". I can assure you that many to the posters at AudioReview have equipment and expertise that would make you envious.

Both Audiogon and AudioReview have their place. I, too, often find Audiogon more useful than AudioReview, but to foster such snobbery about AudioReview or any other board is simply ridiculous.

Take AudioReview for what it is, just another source of information, nothing more - nothing less.

Will

I feel you may be selling short the value that can be gained from amateur audio reviews. There are many of your opinion, but I disagree. Of course most owners will rave about a product that they own but what is more important to be gained from reading them is a sense of consistency among the reviews of a product's attributes and shortcomings. Not all reviews will reveal this but certainly if a product has been reviewed enough something of value to the astute reader should emerge. Many are vanity exercises but some will give very useful, revealing information. Of course nothing will substitute for an in home audition. My 2 cents.

Another Will

I had the R630's for about six month and didn't like them. They lacked musical weight for my tastes. They sounded thin.

Pete

Hey folks!

Fiddler, I appreciate your clarification, as well as what we have communicated privately. Also, Tubegroover, your points are well taken and I appreciate them, too.

I guess I didn't make myself clear, leading people to jump to wrong conclusions. I didn't NEED positive affirmations from owners because I'd already had a number of those, along with some extremely friendly and helpful private correspondence with members of the Yahoo Newform Group and others.

Whenever I am evaluating a new piece of gear, I make it a point to read the negative reviews, especially if my brow is burning with the fever of desire for immediate gratification. Sometimes negative reviewers cause me to stop and think; other times I read what they say and know that their concerns won't be a problem for me.

So, guys, it wasn't a matter of discounting the value of your opinions but rather of particularly wanting to hear what the naysayers and the neutrals had to offer.

With regard to amateur reviews, I value them enormously or I wouldn't be on the 'gon. However, I find the level of knowledge and discernment on the 'gon several lightyears ahead of audioreview. You gotta agree that there's a lot of pretty worthless stuff there. The other day I read an audioreview of a REL subwoofer and the writer said, "This thing's a piece of crap. It won't kick booty on movies." Hardly a useful review of a highly respected name in low frequency reproduction.

What I should have said was that I read audioreview with some discernment. I'm not really arrogant, I just don't suffer fools gladly.

Anyway, I suppose I needed my chain jerked, if only to remind me to be clear about what I mean when I write.

Will