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Taking the bad with the good

While many of us share what we think are good components and combo's of gear, is there any specific system(s) that you've heard that you thought was utterly attrocious ?

Personally, one of the worst "mega-dollar" systems that i've ever heard was the demo system that Linn used here in Chicago at Hi-Fi '99. It was actively tri-amped using the infamous Linn CD player, their "flat as a pancake" sized power amps, Linn speakers, etc... The sound was SO "flat & sterile" that it made me think that i was in an elevator listening to a piped Muzak.

This all started out with the Linn rep's giving us a big schpiel about how technically excellent this system was, what the benefits to using components from one manufacturer were, how "system synergy" could be maximized, etc... This went on for some 20 - 30 minutes. Quite honestly, i was surprised at how full the room remained during this WAY too long of a sales rap. Finally, they ended up playing some music.

As i mentioned, everything sounded as if it had been "bleached" i.e. the music had no body, soul, colour, feeling or dynamics. By the middle of their first selection, over 60% of the crowd had turned around and walked out of the room. My brother and i stuck around as i wanted to give them the benefit of doubt. Onto the next selection. More of the same. Even more people got up and left. By the end of the demo, there was about 20 - 25% of the original crowd left.

I ended up talking to one of the sales reps and told him what i thought. I did this to let them know that they might want to try listening to the system from the consumers point of view / listening point rather than near the equipment or off to the side. Obviously, in my opinion, something was drastically wrong.

First of all, he did not know what the term "sterile" meant. He then went on to tell me "well, you're probably just used to listening to coloured equipment. Now you know what real music sounds like on accurate equipment." My only response to him was that most of the crowd must not like "accuracy" either, as they all split right away. If they were there to sell their product, they were doing more harm than good. Otherwise, the room would have still been full and people would have been asking "how much" and "where can i buy" rather than mumbling under their breath and heading for the door.

Anyone else have a similar story / experience ? Sean
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sean
detlof
1,899 posts
 
I haven't been to one audio show in the last twenty years, I did not go away from, sniggering inwardly about how my rig at home was much better, only to be brought back to reality, listening to perhaps similar systems at friends' or collegues' homes. Reason for that could be to my mind:
Sales people know how to sell, but generally haven't got a clue about music. Besides they have to stick to the names, they represent and there the synergy sought after is not musicality but money.
Their ears are ideologised, in a George Orwellian sense.
The room accoustics under show conditions generally stink to
high heaven.
Generally the power is polluted.
If at all, the systems have been tuned in empty rooms and they sound different, when they are packed with listeners.
I've heard myriads of excuses or "explanations" of the unfortunate salespeople, all of which I've forgotten, because they were probably neither funny nor particularly original. I was also genereally a bit taken aback by the taste of the general public, who seemed to love window rattling bass, which made the lower registers of a cello sound like a love sick dynosaur, I heard them rave about the clarity of upper registers, the sound of which made my teeth grit, or the naturalness of a guitar, which unfortunately had the size of a Mack truck. Mind you, this is Europe. Perhaps chez vous across the pond things are better.
Cheers,
unsound
6,115 posts
 
As usual Sean and Zaikesman bring up very good points. Not to rehash previous threads but one of the worst demo's I've ever heard was the one by Classic Audio Research at the last Sterophile show in New York. I know Sean liked it. Before I recently moved I used to frequent a dealer in New York that was very pro Linn. Sometimes I liked what I heard, other times not. Sometimes it was the same system in the same room. Are audiophiles fickle? Perhaps or more probably different music showed different +'s and -'s. If this could happen in a good demo (and this dealer presented quality auditions) Zaikesmen's point would certainly hold true at shows. There is some equipment that I consistently like and some that I consistently dislike, as well as some that I inconsistently like and/or dislike. Go figure?
nrchy's avatar
nrchy
2,111 posts
 
While my wife was shopping for...who knows what at a mall I saw a Bose store and decided to hide there for a while. At the risk of beating a dead horse I have to say their 901 speakers sounded terrible! For all the hipe we listened to in the last 40 years about them, they sucked. Even in their own store they couldn't get them to sound good. The salesman droned on about this measurement and that acoustical treatment but no matter how long he talked he couldn't make them sound better. Wow, was I happy when my wife walked in!
tobias
1,534 posts
 
I have heard a few underwhelming but expensive setups so I know what you mean by your question, but it strikes me that what really got you here was the salesman's refusal to listen, both to you and to his system. Which is perhaps ironic considering what he sells and Linn's own frequently-stated commitment to the music. But I see several factors at work, and here they are as quick as I can:

--Nobody expects first-class sound "under show conditions," even the pros. This is too bad as more could probably be done. Some demonstrators do manage a good job, investing in a large room, absorbers, diffusers and time-consuming experiments with placement. This can all get very costly.

--Ears get tired just like the rest of you and in synch with the rest of you too. Show demonstrators are under real pressure; their main goal is to get the kit set up fast, then get at least some sleep. Ears don't get rested. In my view everyone should have a 24-hour break between setup and opening, preferably out in the woods.

--The famous "subjective judgment" blind spot which you so clearly describe. Lots of people in audio have it, and Linn people are quite special that way, their slogan is "the only sound," and their Scots singlemindedness is both maddening and charming. The system doesn't sound good to you because "you don't know how a good system should sound". Yet their ads in the past have encouraged you to trust your ears. It's enough to make you want to run for the woods, which might do everybody's ears some good come to think of it.

For anyone building a high-end system Linn equipment is a must-listen if you can stand the pitch. I have heard the same system you describe, in Montreal, and I thought it was terribly disappointing there too, and much too loud. Other, lower-key demos of lower-end rigs have been much better.

And to answer your question at least a little bit, I would say that every single home theater demo I have ever heard at a show has had poor sound and a high price tag.
lugnut
1,190 posts
 
Sean,

Great post. You hit upon a raw nerve with this fellow Audiogoner. Your experience at CES with the Linn reps is exactly why the Linn retail outlets are full of insufferable jerks. Attention all: THE TAIL DOES NOT WAG THE DOG! It is obvious that the people you spoke with actively train the retailers to insult our collective intelligence and this mindset comes directly from the top.

These blistering comments are coming from a member that has a Linn based system of which I am quite happy. Unfortunately, this will be my last investment in the Linn line. It is simply too difficult to do business with snooty folks and their canned speeches. Please note: applogies to the Linn dealers who shoot straight.

I will give credit to Ivor for blazing the trail in turntable design. His flagship comment that "you can't improve upon the source" holds true today and, in my mind, is a universal truth. I applaud Linn for embracing active crossovers and intergrating components so seamlessly. Somewhere along the line Ivor became so full of himself that he fullfilled Murphys Law; eventually, you rise to your level of imcompetence.

I understand that the Komri can't have enough Linn amps thrown at them to work well and that the system shut down several times at one of the CES shows. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

All that being said, I still believe that my LK100's/Keilidh/Aktiv at $1300 used was an incredible bargain. My LP12 has served me well for over 20 years and doesn't beg for a replacement.

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