Speakers

Tok20000, as I indicated earlier, I realize not many agree with the position I take. But, in my opinion, your argument does not necessarily do more to substantiate your position than it does to substantiate my position.

Why? Because in the course of outlining your argument and subsequent illustrations you are presupposing that the owner will simply roll the dice or crapshoot at selecting the correct speaker for that 'world class amp'.

And it simply doesn't make sense for one to so diligently seek out that 'world class amp' and then not do likewise for the right speaker to match that right amp. Or perhaps you were implying that I was suggesting such a crapshoot for speakers. Which I was not.

We simply have different approaches toward accomplishing some goal here of which may or may not be too dissimilar.

But would you at least agree that there are fewer 'world class amps' available than there are 'world class speakers'? Or, at the very least, would you agree that there are less amplifier manufacturers and models that there are speaker manufacturers and models?

I believe the answer to both questions is absolutely.

But for the sake of this thread and my position, I believe it better to settle on the amp first even if for no other reason than for availability alone.

If there are fewer 'world class' amps worth owning than there are 'world class' speakers worth owning, then finding the 'right' amp is already just little more like searching for the proverbial needle in a haystack. Because fewer exist and also because of the compatibility issues you mentioned previously.

Acquiring the right 'world class' speakers first limits the probability of finding the right 'world class' amplifier has just potentially been brought down to the point where looking for a needle in a haystack is no longer proverbial. It may entirely be factual and actual. Again, because fewer exist and also because of the compatibility issues you mentioned previously.

That is only one reason why, as I stated earlier that, I believe purchasing the right speakers first can possibly lead to:
o greater compromises in sonics now and in the future.
o more upgrades due to greater likelihood of incompatibilities and subsequent compromises.
o if more upgrades, then potentially more money and frustration.
o lesser probability of acquiring what could otherwise be a 'world class' sounding system.

In summary, I would think my approach to be the more stream-lined approach toward reaching the mark. If for no other reason, the law of probabilities would most likely weigh in on my side.

But then again, I could be wrong.

Nice chatting with you, and

As always, -IMO

Tok2000 has some excellent insights! I'd pay attention to his advice. Synergy is not necessarily going to be proportional to the $ you spend, but rather how carefully you research and audtition the components you spend them on. In addition to what Tok2000 advises, you will also want to consider your own personal listening preferences, as well as the room you are setting all of this up in. For instance, some folks, like myself, LOVE the sound of good horn speakers, while others think they are too bright and harsh. As a broad, sweeping generalization, horns combined with SS may sound not at their best, while the same horns paired up with a good tube amp could sound delicate and airy (which goes to the same point Tok2000 is making I think). If you are into listening to vocals, and strings horns might be a great choice paired up with the right amp. If you are into rock and roll there are probably better choices. I don't know if I agree with the addage proposed by Stehno, though I would say that your source material is more critical in that same regard. If you put garbage in, the best you can hope for is garbage out the other end. Perhaps the garbage may smell a bit sweeter, but it's still garbage. Just .02 cents more for your consideration!

Split the difference. Why blow your wad on speakers that will make you dissatisfied with your system? It would drive me crazy knowing how great my new speakers -could- sound.
Consider $2k on amp, $3k on speakers. You can find some excellent speaker for that much, especially used. And have a good start in the amp department too.

Hello.

Speakers are #1. I enjoy the combo of Harbeth Compact 7ES-II and an M&K MX700 subwoofer. If you have "pre out" capability, you can get this for less than your stated budget. This combo allows you to place the sub for best room bass loading, and the monitors are free for your preferred soundstaging.

Good luck,
Charlie

First I would like to state that amplification is important and spending $5k on speakers and driving them with a $500 amplifier (any $500 amp) does not make a whole lot of sense.

If you can afford $5k for speakers now, and will be able to afford to spend $2k+ on an amp in the very near future, that is fine. But if you want to spend $5k on speakers now (using a $500 or so amp), and in a year or so spend $2k+ on an amp, you would MOST LIKELY BE BETTER OFF GETTING $3K SPEAKERS NOW AND SPENDING AORUND $2K ON AN AMP TO MATCH THEM NOW.

Besides component matching, there is such thing as component balance. Nice transparent $5k speakers are going to force you to hear the limits of the upstream components driving them (especially when one has so-so components upstream). Just as mating a world class amp with a middle of the road speaker that the amp can easily drive, you will seriously start hearing the limits of that speaker. This is another reason it is not always good to start with getting a great amp first with middle of the road speakers. Some speakers do not really show their limits or serious flaws until they have an amp driving them that can totally dominate them. These speakers can potentially have resonances that appear, their bass can sound well... not-so-good (trying to reach frequencies that the amp is completely solid to but the speaker was never intened to read), the trebble can start sounding harsh... Whatever minor problems the speaker had in a middle of the road system are amplified many fold when being driven by a great amp (that can drive the speaker well).

Now I am not going to say that all middle of the road speakers will demonstrate fatal flaws when hooked up to nice amplification, but they can, and I have experienced these situations first hand with several older speakers I have owned.

A person is far better off selecting a speaker they love (soundwise), and matching an amp to it (maybe the amp that they heard the speaker on?). Then a person who goes out and buys a great amp and then makes a speaker decision.

Personally, IMHO, there are many more great amps in the world than great preamps. I think most sound in the upstream components gets negatively impacted by the preamplification. If your amp is capable of driving your speakers, besides your speakers, I think the preamp makes the biggest impact on a system. This may seem difficult to understand for the relatively new audiophile, and it has taken me nearly 16 years to come to this conclusion. The preamps should be the ONLY device that regulates/filters sound in a music system. This regulation/filtration is of the absolute utmost importance because what signal gets through the preamp is the ONLY signal that an amplifier can amplify. Bad preamplification can screw up world class sources. Bad preamplification can make a world class amp sound veiled. Bad preamplification can make world class speakers sound anything but world class.

Most people do not put enough emphisis on a preamp because nearly any preamp can seemingly work in any system (this is absolutely not true, but some people passively believe it). As opposed to amps... not every amp can drive any speakers well (most people know this).

Anyway, this and $2 will get you a cofee at Starbucks.

KF