Omnidirectional speakers. The future?

Opalchip...The sound generated by a point source speaker becomes, within a few feet, a planar wavefront, just as you have described. By generating a planar wavefront to begin with the planar speaker is (neglecting for the moment any reflections) simulating a point source at a greater distance. As a result of this the SPL falls off much less rapidly as distance to the listener's position increases, producing (IMHO) a very stable and uniform soundstage throughout most of the listening room. This characteristic of planar speakers, more than their inherent bidirectional nature, accounts for the sound that some people like.

Opalchip, I gotta tip my hat to you for consistently holding to your convictions, even if they're very different from mine. I have a feeling your ideas are more the norm than what you're finding on this thread - I think you've stumbled into a hotbed of believers in planars and/or poly-directional loudspeakers (to borrow Dick Shahinian's term).

A comment about one of your arguments, if I may: While it is true that the microphone picks up hall ambience cues, microphones are usually placed much closer to the performers than listeners would normally be. So, relatively speaking, they pick up a much higher proportion of direct to reverberant sound than what a listener would hear in the same venue. This isn't always the case, but usually is.

Also, the direction from which reflections arrive make a difference in how they are percieved, and in most venues the reflections arrive from all around rather than from the exact same direction as the first-arrival sound. Reflections that arrive from the sides, and well delayed in time, are particularly beneficial in conveying a sense of ambience and acoustic space.

My father has done research in anechoic chambers, and he reports that music live or reproduced in an anechoic chamber has incredible clarity but also sounds dead and boring. I have not listened in an anechoic chamber, but having severely overdamped my listening room as an experiment let's just say I'm sure it wouldn't be my cup of tea.

My conclusion from fairly extensive research in the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society and other publications, and from my own crude experiments, is that the ideal would have the direct sound to arrive completely free from early reflections, then for the reflected energy to begin to arrive perhaps 10 or more milliseconds later, and then that reverberant energy would build up and decay over about 50 or so milliseconds.

However, if I understand your position correctly, you hold that all reflections are colorations - even those inevitably part of a live performance. So there is little point in me arguing that there's a right way and a wrong way for a loudspeaker to interact with the room if you see all room interactions as inherently detrimental. I doubt you and I will find much common ground here other than our passion for audio well reproduced, whatever that may mean. Hey, that's enough for me. I'd love to hear your system some day, and if you're ever in New Orleans give me a holler and come hear mine.

Cheers,

Duke

Opalchip,
Not once in your discourse, albeit cohesive, have I perceived any experience on your behalf of omni or pseudo omni loudspeakers. Might you find it in your realm of acceptance, the off chance that the culmination of your scientific understanding could be eclipsed by real experience?
Many with respected opinions (not me) have chimed in on your post. I suspect because they find you intelligent enough to consider their opinions. Listen to some real live music, then listen to some MBL's, German Physiks, Ohms, Shahinians, Quads etc. If you don't like them, fine we'll agree to disagree. Until then, please remain agnostic.

Hi all again - I'll be heading out for the weekend so this is my last post for now:

re: Sean - I started a new thread on DBX expanders so as not to drag this one OT with that stuff.

re: Audiokinesis - What you say about mic location is very true, and it has a huge impact on the success of a recording as far as I'm concerned - but that's a whole other topic, too.

The anechoic chamber or overdamped room probably sounds dull because of some or all of these reasons:
-It's not what we're used to.
-You can actually hear how IMPERFECT even a great recording played back on high quality equipment really is compared to the original!
-Room generated Reverb is fun.
-We expect it to be dull - the placebo effect.
-In a properly set-up room we are actually relying on/using wall interactions to cancel out the fact that your right ear is hearing the left channel output, and your left ear is hearing the Right channel, etc. - which dramatically reduces the stereo effect. (It might be interesting to hear a perfectly set up Carver Sonic Holography unit in anechoic chamber. Don't worry, I wouldn't use one at home.)

So, yes, I do hold that all interactions are colorations of what was recorded. But indeed we all may want those colorations because they sound better than not having them by bringing back some of that "liveliness" which was lost in the reproduction process.

re: Holzhauer - I don't have anything at all against omni-directional speakers if that is what somebody likes. My only "objection" when I started posting here was really the quasi-science which is so profusely expounded by the speaker builders/marketers and then absorbed as fact by audiophiles.

I have owned 3 pairs of Ohm/Walsh (with and without the dampening material inside the can) and have had friends with planars (quad/maggie/X-static/ML), which I enjoy but wouldn't want for myself.

As came up in Audiokinesis post - I suppose we do need and enjoy some amount of room interaction, but anyway I look at it - the more interaction the more "distortion" from the original. My experience (for my particular taste) is that the amount thrown off by an omni- is too much, in too many ways, to control properly so that I get the sound that I enjoy, which is very precise imaging with very minimal coloration. I'm going nuts right now just trying to tame the rear wave from a pair of Alon V's to direct and reduce the rear wall bounce.

I haven't heard Shahinians and am always open.

Opalchip: your comment of "the sound that I enjoy, which is very precise imaging with very minimal coloration" pretty much sums things up. That is, omni's / bipolar's / dipolar's, etc... are all going to produce an image that is more vague than a focused field type of speaker radiation pattern. As far as colouration goes, individual speaker placements, individual room acoustics and individual sonic preferences are going to dictate what is or isn't acceptable to us as individuals.

Personally, i've got multiple different types of speakers in various systems and enjoy them all. Time aligned mini-monitors with dual down-firing subs in the bedroom, large 5 driver 4 way towers as the mains and surrounds in my HT system, a line array of electrostatic tweeters / stacked electrostatic mid panels / multiple dipolar push-pull dynamic woofers in my main system, very large horns in my basement system and omni's in my office system. They all have their good and bad points, but that's what makes them all "special". As i've posted in another thread and if i had to choose between them all, the one set that i would keep would be my Ohm F's. As such, we are obviously on opposite sides of the coin in terms of what we find to be "important" to us in terms of the type of presentation that we enjoy. That doesn't mean that we can't be friends or share a love of music though : ) Sean
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