price points vs. room treatment

Some speakers are meant to be up against the wall. Maybe not many, and I don't know which, but I'd check those out...I recall Art Dudley saying that Moth Chicadas or something like that were supposed to be positioned not only against the wall but in a corner and they did work best that way. So, all is not lost. And even if you don't hear the system to its "best" advantage, you can hear it to a good advantage... good luck

newbee, you are correct in pointing out that sans treatment you 'll never get the most out of your rig. However, my room is in dire need of treatment, and some areas just ain't gonna get it for money or WAF reasons, but my quality rig still sounds a lot better there than a low or mid budget rig. You gotta take what you can where ya can. As you indicated, getting the speakers away from the side walls, and to a lesser extent the rear wall helped a lot.

Piezo, I didn't mean my post to sound like a put down, just a call for someone to really start thinking about what they were trying to do. Some things are possible (with help from experienced folks) and others are not. I know of folks who chase a lot of money after the ultimate sound stage but have to have the speakers against the wall - well you can get some frontal spread for sure but you will have zero depth, even with speakers "designed to be placed there". They then find the design being for nothing much more than to provide a better, more even, bass response- you get the idea. By the way, if you have trouble with wall reflections (not bass reinforcement) you can play with toe in a lot more than most do - try crossing the speakers axis in front of you - this will go a long way to eliminate those side wall reflections. You might also find better focus in the center as well. Works great in small rooms. Just a thought.....

I didn't see your comment as a put down but rather as suggesting that high end gear may not be worth considering when that gear may still gain you benifits...though in no way the benifits that would be gained in a nicely appointed room...and still be worth consideration

I agree with you totally about people needing to think about what they want to accomplish (and this applies to a bunch of dealers rooms as well unfortunately) but i guess i'm emphisizing that you need not give up on high end as long as you recognize the limitations of what you have to work with. What may be needed though is a def of high end...chasing the elusive 5% with a $100k rig forget it! You are 200% correct in saying that it's a waste of time and money but 90% is probably attainable with good gear ($15-$20k rig) and proper set up even with room limitations

is it reasonable to say that no matter how wonderful a pair of speakers might sound in the store there is a very likely possibility that these same speakers will not sound as good in your untreated living room?
--of course...

but dont kid yourself, the diff in a 700$ and a 4k set of speakers will be easily audible even in the least ideal situations (no room treatments, running a junker cdp and a receiver)