Audio Research PH6 Phono Stage - How is it?

Tmmvinyl,

I agree is it definitely one way to go. However, I am building my system from the ground up so there is so many moving parts that it would be difficult to see what is improving or not. You have to make some purchases at the beginning at least. i am not to concerned about choosing the "perfect system" as there is no such thing. There may be even a couple of components that are better than what I have, but not going to get too stressed about it. I am just using the forum to gain more understanding on products. When i do go to demo them or get a loaner, at least I'll have a narrowed down list of what I think I may like. There are so many global manufacturers nowadays and so many different models that I just want to find out more about them from people who have more experience. I think others would benefit from the forum questions and comments as well. From these forums, I was able to eliminate a lot of products after hearing more about and knew they weren't for my tastes. I have demoed everything I've purchased thus far (when I travel I research nearby audio shops), so I hope it is realized I am not just ordering random things blindly.

The somewhat low efficiency of your speakers (about 85 db at 1 meter on a per watt basis, which can be inferred from the measurements here), in combination with the 0.3 mv rated output of your cartridge and the approximately 0.32 volt sensitivity of your integrated amp, raises some concern in my mind about the adequacy of the 58 db gain of the PH6. Particularly if you are using the amp in triode mode, and particularly if your listening includes material having wide dynamic range (i.e., a wide DIFFERENCE in volume between the loudest and the softest notes, such as many classical symphonic recordings).

Under those circumstances I suspect that you would be using the amp's volume control roughly in the 3 to 4 o'clock position (assuming the min and max positions of the control are at roughly 7 and 5 o'clock, respectively). Which raises concerns not only with respect to noise generated by the phono stage, but perhaps also with respect to noise generated by the integrated amp.

What I'd suggest at this point is that with no music playing you turn up the volume control to the point where noise levels become objectionable, and let us know the corresponding position of the control. Also, let us know if you are using triode or ultralinear mode, and if your listening includes material having particularly wide dynamic range.

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al

I compared the herron head to head against the zesto and the rhea signature and it was better by no small margin. I would think the EAR to be a good choice if you wanted to keep the cost down.

"08-05-15: Djfst
Zd542, not sure what people in my position are to do. If you don't have any local audio shops to listen in person or demo, cannot bring stuff home on a loan, what else do you do but ask in forums, read reviews, talk to stores/reps over the phone who are familiar with your system, and then buy? I hear what you're saying though, but I don't' see how else to match. You could buy cheap stuff first, but I would still be in the same boat trying to match stuff I've never heard in my actual system. This is a major problem in high end audio without brook and mortar stores. "

Sorry. I just saw your reply.

I understand your points. They make perfect sense. That said, high end audio doesn't always make sense. I know that you're just getting started and want good stuff, but you're doing way too much all at once. If you continue going down this path, you'll most likely make some very expensive mistakes. One thing that new audiohiles almost never pick up on is performance vs price. Generally speaking, as the price/performance of components rise, the more difficult it is to get good sound. I know this sounds counterintuitive, but its true. High resolution components are not forgiving. If you're new, its much easier to take $5k and build a good soundind system than $25k. So looking at your statement about how you'll be in the same boat if you go with cheap or expensive gear, yes, it seems to make sense on paper, but it won't hold up in reality. You have absolutely no frame of reference by which to judge anything you buy.

I'll give you a couple of examples. Take this thread about the ARC PH6. When it comes to signal transfer, the lower the voltage, the more delicate the signal. That's why preamps/phono pre's tend to be expensive. Your Quintet Black has an output voltage of .3mv. I don't know if its such a good idea to match it with a mid line SE tube phono pre that has only 1 gain setting of 57db. To me, a demo is a must just to see if the combo will even work properly, let alone sound good.

Another example would be cables. I see your other posts on what Nordost cables to buy. Understand this: There's no guarantee that either one of those IC's will sound as good as the free cables they give you in the box that come with components. Sometimes the free cables sound better.

I could keep going on with more examples, but I think I've given enough info to make my point.

I appreciate your response, Zd542. I can see exactly what you mean. My own major purchases have been components I've heard together and really liked. I don't like an over ally clinical sound that gives a great musical presentation for 10 minutes but it is not something I could listen to for hours or months or even years. I knew tube gear what I wanted and the Sonus Faber match that warm sweet midrange I favor so much in vocals and my music genres. I similar read that the PH6 and other Audio Research phono stages are not good for low output MC cartridges. I've always favored the Herron as the tubes can be changed easily to give up to 69db gain, which should be plenty. Cabling is another story. I will follow your advice and demo some cabling starting low in the Nordost and Cardas lines and work my way up. I will then see what I like and see if I can get cables to audition in my specific system before making any decisions. Perhaps your point is why so many items are on the Audiogon Classifieds?