Cables more hype than value?

I think Aczel says that there are no differences in wires that cannot be explained in terms of resistance, capacitance and inductance. His back issues contain an article showing how cables with different electrical characteristics caused very large and measurable differences in the frequency response based on the cable's interaction with the amp/speaker circuit. I know he once wrote that coat hangers are identical to the most expensive cables, but that statement seems inconsistent with his own article.

On amplifiers, he does say that amplifiers of a similar design, matched in levels and run below clipping are indistinguishable from each other in listening tests. He never said that all amps - tube and solid state, set and push-pull, all sound the same.

Okay.

One set of cables are designed to "fit" the requirements of an amp and a pair of speakers.
Said cable will not work as well with other amps and speakers since they are of different design and needs.
No one cable is good enough for all applications?
Did we just come full circle?

I have several sets of cables that sound different to anyone who would care to listen and all are well regarded, well made cables. So it seems that a cable that would fit the requirements of a given system can only be made one way and if anyone makes that particular cable, they should all sound the same.

That I understand but doesn't it stand to reason that there need be as many types of cable needed to satisfy the particular requirements of all the possible combinations of amps, speakers, length and gauge in order to get the best possible sound?

I don't mean to sound obtuse (though I've been accused of being stubborn) but I think we're all agreeing on this from different perspectives.

All the best,
Nonoise

One set of cables are designed to "fit" the requirements of an amp and a pair of speakers.
Said cable will not work as well with other amps and speakers since they are of different design and needs.
No one cable is good enough for all applications?
Did we just come full circle?

No, no, no! That isn't what I said. Either you're foolish or just being difficult, I'm going to assume the latter. In the case of the example I made for speakers, any 10 gauge stranded copper cable will work for any speaker, in any reasonable length (like, less than 100 feet). 12 gauge wire works just fine for many, many cases. I was just pointing out that you can screw up speaker cable by going to too small a gauge. I was not at all trying to say that every speaker needed a different set of cable parameters.

Any properly designed RCA-terminated interconnect will work indistinguishably from another, no matter what the length. For lengths over, I dunno, fifteen feet, you might want to consider balanced cables (XLR-terminated) to take advantage of common mode rejection, but there won't be audible differences between cables. In the case of XLR cables, anything you pick up in a music store for mics or amps will do fine.

We did not come full circle. Stop it!

On amplifiers, he does say that amplifiers of a similar design, matched in levels and run below clipping are indistinguishable from each other in listening tests. He never said that all amps - tube and solid state, set and push-pull, all sound the same.

That's sort of true, but Aczel did assert that if tube and SS amps measure alike they will sound alike. I believe that too.

With amps I wonder if things are a little more complicated than Aczel asserts, but, to be honest, I'd rather be on his side of the argument than one asserting differences between amplifiers. A lot of good amps these days don't have a single measurable artifact of noise or distortion above 80db below 1W of output. How any differences could be audible even in the quietest room on an awesome speaker system is difficult to imagine. Other than more power for higher clipping limits, or more stable performance into very complex loads, you begin to wonder about what could possibly improve?

Here we go off the civil path. Neither foolish nor difficult, but patient enough to tolerate another's view. Wish I could say the same.

How does that saying go? "I'll support any man searching for the truth but will fight anyone who claims to know it."

I just don't agree and am trying to understand your point of view. Bare in mind I'm not going to agree with you.

I've seen the same wire constructed with many different terminations (even bare) all measure the same and yet most here would agree that terminations impart their own sound. Some feel, like me, that bare wire is the best way to go. To me it stands to reason that within those same measurements lie more variance than some care to admit.

And as for gauge, why do my 18 gauge Mapleshade SCs sound better than other, thicker guage SCs? I'm talking Zu Mission, Music Metre, Supra SCs that are up there in thickness, well made, and yet can't keep up with what the Mapleshades have to offer.

Don't bother responding if you're inclined to be nasty.

All the best,
Nonoise