Why do you never near anything about Spectral

Sbank, I agree. I heard Spectral with WP7 at a dealer. The salesman couldn't hold his enthusiasm but for me, after oh 15 sec, had to tell him that the emperor was nude. The sound, although transparent, was etched and hard "...no body..." as you say. I asked him why they didn't carry tube systems in the store and he told me frankly that it was too much trouble to maintain. I was comparing that system to my ARC tubed system. Have since upgraded to NAGRA which has taken my system to a new level

Only experience with Spectral was a brief audition of Wilson speakers (the ones below Watt/Puppy, whatever they are called) at a dealer. The gentlemen there played some blues (SACD) and I had to ask who was that guy singing. Answer: Muddy Waters. One of my favourites and I couldn't even recognize his baritone because it sounded so thin! I always believed it was the speakers. The system gave that high-end unearthly presentation where stuff hangs in the air in front of, to the left, to the right of and behind the speakers, but totally disembodied and really unlike what music sounds like in a hall. Now I don't know, maybe those speakers are not to blame.

Hmmm..........tubes and turntables are like coming from a cold wintry day into a warm home with the smell of hot cinnamon rolls coming out of the oven! Warm and fuzzy and oozing with icing. Euphonic warmth, if that is what you want great, but not me. Sure the Spectral can be edgy and maybe a little "white", nothing is perfect. But in my system, what you all have is said does not happen, it surely is not thin and the sound images do not float. The images are rock steady. The resolution from bass to high treble is just incredible. And as I said before: the string quartet is in my listening room, right there in a semicircle. And as I said before I have yet to hear a cello as clean and strong as with my current system. Hey it could be the dedicated room with the current tube/bass traps and diffusors, it could be that the room does not have a flat roof but is canted. Listen I am not against tubes, I have had them (or my father who swore by tube amps) longer than before many of you were born, over 50 years, but tubes are not my cup of tea, though I will have the cinnamon rolls!

I spent a lot of time with Spectral's amps driving the Avalons at Overture, complete with MIT cable system etc. The sound was fantastic. I've also had experience with Spectral systems that were less than optimal. My opinion is that because of their high bandwidth and noise senstivity, extreme care must be taken with ancillaries.

There are a great many tube amps on the market that are the antithesis of slow "warm" and euphonic. The Lamm ML2.1's, Joule Electra amps(Grand Marquis), Tenor and my own Atmasphere MA2 Mk2.3's are prime examples that are extremely resolved, detailed and dynamic. You are painting with _way_ too broad a brush when referring to "Tube Amps" as "warm and fuzzy and oozing with icing". Sure, I could name some that are, just as I could classify some solid state amps as hard, brittle and dry, but I would never generalize in that way about an entire class of products.

What's great is that you found the perfect amps-- for you-- and are thrilled with your choice, but that doesn't mean that tube amps are just something 'Grandma' used to like.

I've owned some fantastic SS amps in my day, Edge, Symphonic Line, Essence etc and all were great in their own way. I've simply found the virtues of HC OTL to be be my cup-a the last few years, and never looked back.

My only caveat with Spectral is that once you step outside the Avalon/MIT realm for ancillaries (and careful AC management) it can get complicated to system match them.

Only my experience, mind you.

Grant

I have heard some Spectral systems and have mixed feelings. I once heard the DMA-360's with a Spectral front end playing over Dunalvy 5 speakers at Goodwin's in the Boston area. I was pretty amazed. The resolution and dynamics coming from these amps was extrodinary and significantly better than the DMA180. It was not lifeless...in fact it was very life-like (I think the Dunlavy's had a lot to do with that...much better than the Avalons which were evaluated that day. I can see equating lifeless with Avalon's) Ever since then, I have committed to trying to recapture that level of resolution and presence from my future system iterations.

On the other hand, I heard an all spectral system using the DMA180 amp over Wilson WP-6 speakers. I was totally unimpressed. Very thin, strident, bright..uninvolving and unatural. I don't know if it was the amp, room, or speakers...?

I think it is a stretch to assume that all tubes sound warm, fuzzy euphonic just like it is wrong to assume that all solid state is sterile. In fact, I think the best examples of each are beginning to converge and system combinations must be considered.

For example, I found that my CAT JL-2 tube amp, combined with Viurtual Dynamics cables, comes pretty damn close to the resolution and dynamics I heard from the Spectral 360's but beats the combo I heard in terms of providing a very natural body, timbre and life, without sounding euphonic or fuzzy.

Ultimately, one needs to look at the right combo's. I think the Avalon speaker may not be the best match for the Spectral. However, need to be careful that you consider a more balanced front end when using spectral amps and pre so as to "tune" the sound.

I think an ultimate system would be to utilize a high resolution tube preamp with Spectral 360 amp