Jadis Orchestra Reference SE and DA-50 Integrateds

Bartokfan, are you in France?

I'm not nearly as well versed as you when it comes to Cayin gear, but a friend of mine has the KT88 based integrated. It sure is a nice amplifier, but it doesn't appeal to me in the way that the Jadis integrateds do.

By the way, which output tubes are you running in your JOR? I presume the JJ KT88? If so, I think that is probably the best overall tube. Especially in light of you driving a moderately demanding speaker load. But, if you are using the Ei KT90, I think you would be quite happy once you move to another output tube. Again, if you are ever interested enough to give the JJ Blue Glass E34L tubes a try, the midrange is out of this world.

In terms of the DA60 update, tonight I have placed it in the system it was meant for - my wife's. My only caveat is that currently I am runing the horrific Sovtek 6550. All I can say is this, the DA60 is surely a lifetime purchase for us. With the Coincident speakers, the match is very, very good. Unlike the DA30, there is absolutely no shortage of power. We are getting high volumes without issue. Then again, you really have to see how much larger the beast is than the JOR and DA30. The transformers are breathtaking. The DA30's transformers are one size up from the JOR, and I figured the DA60 used the same units. Boy, was I wrong, they are probably twice as large.

As I wrote above, the clear, open sound put me back toward what I described the JOR possessing. Still, there is some real weight in the low frequencies. Not the rich, luxurious, relaxed sound of my older DA30, but still full bodied and powerful. Personally, I find the amp strikes quite a nice balance between being forward and relaxed, sort of the Goldilocks "just right" kind of thing. It seems to have the attributes you and I liked regarding the JOR, along with what we felt could be improved upon - more power, more rich and powerful low frequencies, no hint of leanness. With the dead cold amp playing for maybe 5 seconds, my wife confidently announced the DA60 was the best amp I've ever provided her.

On Saturday evening, just for fun, we went back and forth with a quad of JJ Blue Glass EL34 tubes I had against the Sovtek. No question, the JJ were day and night better. So, the next move is to pick up 8 new output tubes, and I am having an extremely difficult time deciding between the EL34 or the KT88. It's more or less a question of bass versus midrange. Factoring in price, perhaps I'll give the EL34 the nod. Once I make this move, and the tubes burn in, I'll be ready to complete the picture here. If I get any improvement akin to what retubing did for my JOR, this amp is literally going to be so good it will be scary.

I can now relate to what I relayed above, when you move up in the Jadis line, you still have a Jadis, you just get more of it. The DA60 provides the "mores" that one would ask for over the JOR. Though, in the end, I feel totally sure in saying again that if value factors into this equation whatsoever, the JOR is the definite play here - what a special high end audio product!!! I think the world really needs to give this special little amp a listen - many, many eyes would be opened.

Wow! I'm really, really impressed by the replies here. Thanks Joe and Mr. Bartok for these exceptional details. Joe, I know that specs really don't mean much but I was curious about the fact that the frequency range on the DA-50 is only 20-17k, whereas the JORSE goes up to 40k. Is this meaningful? It sounds like it isn't an important issue. Still, I was wondering about the differences. I'm not fully versed on technical issues.

Where I live the JORSE, goes for about 2900 USD and the DA-50 is 6500 USD. I hope you don't find this query rude, but if you don't mind, what is the price of the DA-60? Don't feel obliged to answer if my query is out of line. I'm not sure I can get the DA-60 where I live. I've not yet seen it posted on any of the familiar websites.

Thanks so much for the replies. I learned a lot from them.

Bill

"Jadis products are best enjoyed by folks who get the emotional end of music, and are less concerned about the way things look on paper or measure."

Rereading your post once again, I see you've answered this question already. Thanks.

In France, the Cayin 500 received many rave reviews but I don't think it was ever sold in the US. I have never heard one.

I auditioned both the JOR and 50S side by side and loved both. It was a classic comparison of EL34 to KT88 and so I would pick whichever tube I prefer. Personally, I like EL34 better.

I am indeed the lucky recipient of Joe's JOR. Just for perspective, let me state that my home system (EMM DCC2, CDSD, Sota Cosmos latest vacuum model, Shelter 901, EAR 324, Atma-Sphere MP-1 Mk III, Atma-Sphere MA-2 (220 WPC OTL Class A), Kharma Reference 3.2, PAD Dominus i/cs and s/cs) provides no more musical pleasure than my much more modest second office system, powered by the incredible JOR (Merlin TSM-Mx, APL 3910, Thorens 125 Mk III, Shure V15V, Wright WPP 200 C phono preamp, Cardas GR i/cs and s/c) which runs 12 hours every day while I work. (3500 hours) I am ashamed and embarassed to say that in the 12 months I have owned it, I have not re-biased it after Joe kindly biased it and sent his JJ blue EL 34s with it. I did replace the 12AX7s with Mullard NOS courtesy of Andy at Vintage Tubes. I cannot face dissembling the amp - although it is obviously time, after 12 months. But you cant tell from listening. This is an ear-opening amp, of seductive mid-range, sweet, mellow but resolved highs and light, non-weighty but satisfactory bass. For classical, mostly chamber music - you should just hear Mozart Clarinet concerto or Kiri singing Dovo Sono - you dont miss the non-stellar lower notes - But the overall midrange and high-end are so beguiling, relaxing and tonally perfect, that I elect to listen to it all day rather than come home to a system that is logarithmically more expensive and powerful and "better." But, you just cant beat the utter musicality and visceral appeal of the JOR amp. The mids and highs have a earthy, almost thick, but detailed enough, mystical presence, an almost palpable feel that is sensuous and gripping beyond description - - It blew away any other amps I have tried, including many highly rated SS amps and high powered SET amps of highly pedigreed lineage. This is indeed a magical piece of music-producing design and again I thank Joe for selling it - I really dont think he wanted to - had his arm kinda severely twisted, but it aint going nowhere, unless someone offers me the new auto-biasing Jadis at a song:). Joe's description of its strengths are perfect, and if this wasn't such a pain to bias, would get even higher raves than the best compliment I can give it - it is my first listening choice every day. I cant bring it home to try with the Kharmas because it doesn't have balanced inputs and all my home cables are XLRs. But it owns you after a while and could only conceivably be replaced with another Jadis.....just like Joe did and said.