So you're an audiophile - are you also a musician?

Dan, I'm curious about how/in what way people without formal training can't listen in the same way as those with formal training. Do you mean that those with formal training can analyze the technical details of music, like "So and so is playing the Mixolydian mode for the first two bars of the solo, then switches to the straight major scale? (Aeolian Mode? I forget my theory; been a while)", or something like that?

Thank you all for answering my thread. My intention was to test my hypothesis that most audiophiles, like myself, are really frustrated musicians in disguise and that by investing heavily in audio gear create a panacea for not being up on stage and performing. Thanks to "Basement" for raising the audiophile-musician connection as that was what I was after. The audiophile-musician connection is probably strongly correlated, afterall evolving from listening to music to playing music seems like a pretty natural progression. Thanks too to dan@xenote.com for raising the possibility that trained musicians listen differently than weekend-musicians &/or non-musical playing people. While dan@xenote.com comments sound somewhat elitist I would have to agree that training may improve one's ability to listen differently, not better, just differently. Being able to discern a Selmer alto sax from a Yamaha or Fender bass from a Rickenbacker comes easiest from first hands experience.

As a newbee to Audiogon, I appreciate the passion and participation of its members. Without both elements we'd just be a bunch of "gear heads." In case you were interested, I have played trombone, piano, keyboards and alto sax, and have played in marching and concert bands and come from a musical family where each person plays at least 2 instruments. Hope that didn't sound elitist . . . just blowing my own horn!

Kevinzoe

Kevin,
What do you mean by "musician"? A professional who makes a living at it or someone who actively plays alot? I played saxophone starting in 4th grade thru and including college. However I have not picked up the instrument since. I played in all kinds of bands and was really into it and pretty good but gave it up to pursue a career and a family. I have a firm love of music and especially like classical,traditional jazz,classic rock, and blues. I know music will always be an important part of my life.

Jayarr,
My interpretation of a "musician" is someone that currently plays or has played an instrument (or sings), that may have had formal music training (or not and instead plays by ear), and that could be either professional or amateur. Nothing special here about the term - pretty loose definition really.

Kevin

I'm not sure I want to get into this because I really do not want to offend anyone. In my first post, I tried especially not to sound as if I thought that classically trained musicians somehow had a leg up on everyone else when it comes to listening. I do agree with Dan that we probably do not listen in the same way or to the same things.

For example, our listening group met last week at the home of a guy with a system in the Albert Porter range and a huge collection of both vinyl and digital software. He has some of the most acute and perceptive ears I've ever encountered and manages to avoid the ego that so often comes with them. One of the pieces we listened to was the Weber Clarinet Concerto #1 (f minor). He went on and on about the clarity, the soundstage, the imaging, the "air," giving the recording (actually, giving his system) A+++ marks. What I and another classically trained musician in the room heard was a mediocre clarinet player with intonation all over the place, lousy articulation, and no sense of correct performance practice for Weber.

Now, my friend is a great audiophile and a great listener. He can probably hear the difference if a gnat farts on his interconnects. But nobody ever taught him what a clarinet is supposed to sound like. At least not the niceties that separate a world class player from one who teaches clarinet at Bohunk University.

This is the difference between listening to the music and listening to the sound. I think many audiophiles listen to the sound but those of us who were professionally trained listen to the music. It doesn't make us better, just different.

will