Any Comparisons between VTL 7.5 & ARC Ref 3

To me, at this price point, better is at best subjective. Both units are very well designed and executed. I expect the goal of the manufacturers is to be as accurate as possible. Just two different designs to achieve the same goalm, since both are statement products built without compromise.....Steve

Stesom - what amp are you using with your REF3, PH7, REF CD7? REF110?

Is the amp dead quiet too? I think the REF3 is dead quiet, but when the REF110 was added, there was a little bit of hiss.

Cheers

I had an extensive explanantion of the principles behind the VTL 7.5 design. In a nutshell and from my minimal understanding, a Tube based current source will always be limiting compared to a Mosfet one. Hence the VTL decision to use Mosfets for the current source. They prefer the musicality of the 12AX7 tube or 12AU7 tube as they are deisgned for audio. This is compared to the Russian tubes used by ARC & BAT in their preamps. While the 12AU7 being using in the original 7.5 sounds soft in the 2nd version it is opperated at a much higher current (I hope I am remembering the explanation correctly and putting it in writing 100%) into its most linear range. At this point the 12AU7 tube will not be soft sounding. My skeptism is much reduced in a design theory after these explanations.

But on a different note, I am using the Thor on my 7.5 v1. I really didn't A B it as I tried it in some other systems to great effect. Based on Billbench's comments I will need to go back & try again. 2nd of all, Billbench, I would love to know what Amplifier you are using in your original comparison.

I am running Ayre MX-R monos. I have heard the same setup as mine at my dealer, but using the ARC Ref-210s and also dead quiet.....Steve

What about what I wrote is confusing??? Now I am confused...To be clearer for you, the comparison of these two preamps is imbalanced from the start. A more fair and equitable comparison would be the aforementioned 6.5 to the ARC, not the 7.5. The 6.5 is about 80% (according to VTL) of the 7.5, which is about what I attributed to the Ref3 in my auditions when comparing to the 7.5.

The 7.5 sounds light years better to my ear, and the 6.5 is on a more even footing to the Ref3.

There is nothing "imbalanced" about comparing two reference model preamps from different manufacturers, regardless of the price difference. If a higher price tag meant anything, then the VTL couldn't be compared to many more expensive preamps like the $36K Boulder and some others.

It's especially ironic that the preamp you feel doesn't measure up comes from the company with the longest history in the business and with preamps specifically. ARC/Bill Johnson virtually invented the concept of a high end dedicated preamp over thirty years ago.

It's a bit like saying that you shouldn't even discuss Rollins in the same breath as Coltrane because Coltrane is so vastly superior. Where ever you come down on these comparisons, there is a lot of subjectivity involved in picking the preamp that you consider to be the most musically rewarding. It's one thing to make your case for your favorite, but declaring the competition not worthy of comparison is a silly way to do it.