Holographic imaging


Hi folks, is the so called holographic imaging with many tube amplifiers an artifact? With solid state one only hears "holographic imaging" if that is in the recording, but with many tube amps you can hear it all the time. So solid state fails in this department? Or are those tube amps not telling the truth?

Chris
dazzdax
For me the use of psilocybin always increases my sonic holography taking it way beyond 3D.
Does holography (I can't believe I just said that) come at a cost? That is, does a system designed for maximum spatial attibutes suffer, generally, in some other area of performance - like timbral accuracy? Is H mutually exclusive with some other area of performance?
Mapman,
Logic would dictate that the rendidion of "air" would depend on resolution and "transparency" and in fact, I think it does in the way these terms are generally used here.
This is not what I mean however, so I'll try again:
Strangely enough, the definitions you looked up describe exactly what I mean. It is a dynamic process which starts from a source and then spreads, flourishes... in case of music ...in space. This phenomenon strikes you at once, when listening to a live event right at the first bar of music in that split second before hall induced reverbs set in, as the sound emanating from the instruments rises and spreads. It is something airy as well as liquid, easy to pinpoint, hard to describe. Audiophiles, especially unfamiliar with big orchestral classical live music, probably have hardly heard this, because, as I said, our rigs cannot do this. Digital not at all, even if you mix in tons of hall, because that masks that effect, SS rarely and tubes sometimes. Most cone driven speakers - I am not familiar with more recent designs - mask this as well, stators and ribbons, also plasmas are better suited for this. As far as software is concerned, Blumlein miked , Decca trees, or the Mohr, Layton recording techniques did bring something of this across. I had Quads and Jadis gear at this time. It was, though euphonic, closer to the real thing than most of the rigs I have occasion to listen to now. But then of course my ears have grown old and I have resigned to the fact, that with things being as they are, you will hardly get those very special magical enthrallments at home. There are plenty of others though, to draw us deeply into the enjoyment of our rigs.

Clio,
Are you suggesting, that we use mushroom-paste based filters in our gear? Where would you say can those be implemented? În the ICs or the speaker cables? At the source or the receiving end? Please enlighten and I'll get in touch with retail at Los Tres Rios and will talk to Jack Bybee to go into a joint venture.
Holography is a useful term for describing several attributes of good sound in audio together.

Carver's holography is an explicitly identifiable (analog) signal processing algorithm implemented in Carver equipment. When engaged, it improves the size of the sound stage and ones ability to identify specific players, instruments or recording elements within a more three dimensional sound stage. If you want things to sound more real, this is a good thing because these are attributes of a live musical performance as well that otherwise may often be lost with a 2 channel stereo audio playback system. It does in fact work very well when things are set up right and you listen from just the right place.

Carver is the only company that uses the term to describe a particular feature/function of their equipment that I know of, but I think the use of the term is the primary unique value.

Other equipment clearly achieves holography as well, through similar or different means perhaps, but they do not talk about much if at all, and the function cannot generally be switched in and out...its explicit in the standard operation of the equipment. Others more likely talk about the more commonly discussed elements of good sound that are typically present as well when holography is present, sound stage, imaging precision and detail, 3 dimensionality, bloom, etc.
Mapman, many of us associate holography with out-of-phase signals. Dark Side of the Moon and I Robot and Radiohead didn't get those huge images by accurately recording a performance in a real space. That's all done with signal manipulation. Carver does the same thing.

It can be very impressive to listen to, but it's not "real" except in the context that people like Alan Parsons meant it to sound that way. I love those recordings, but when I listen to the San Francisco Symphony play Mahler, I don't want it.

A system that adds it is performing a stunt, not unlike putting an effects pedal downstream from a guitar. Yes, it can be attractive, but is it the sound of the guitar, no.

Let's not confuse soundstage, bloom, depth, etc. with holography. One set of terms describes a real musical scene and the other describes an artificial effect.

Dave