So what do you think of Class D amp for subwoofers


I am curious to hear what folks think of Class D amplifiers for driving subwoofers. An interesting aspect of this is the switching frequency is ~1000x higher for the frequencies in question, as opposed to using a Class D amp for full range.

My home theater is Class D (Dolby 7.1) and my next major upgrade is replacing the amps with Class AB amps, although I will keep the low signal processing part of the amp.

In the high end system, I found a four channel, 450W into 8 Ohms Class D amp from Marantz to drive the four subwoofers. The price was right and I am not living in a fantasy land that it is a JC1 sitting there!

I have formed my opinions but I wonder if others share my opinions as well.

Thanks!
spatialking
Ah yes, I do remember the discussion. . . tell the truth, I happen to kind of agree with the raw findings of the panel when they reviewed individual amps. . . what I have always problems with is the infimous application of the generalizing induction step. It is worth observing that the amps TAS examined were relatively early products created specifically to meet a particular price point. Most of those products have since then been replaced or enhanced. The Spectron for example, has been significantly enhanced since then. . . recent Spectron entries cost upwards of $22K per monoblock pair with performances to match. The Rowland 201 monoblocks conversely are still current production. They were, and still are the entry level monoblocks of the JRDG product tear and are in consequence designed to meet their price point. JRDG has amps costing upwards of $30K, also with performance to match their price points.

Let us ask ourselves the following: would it be particularly meaningful to promulgate blanket condamnations of the current state of the art in tube amplification, including such extremely high end devices as ARC Reference 610T or VTL sigfried, by generalizing on some supposed shortcomings discovered several years ago in some now obsolete entry level designs?

G.
I've been out of town for the last four days and just got back. I'll read up on all the posts and write a bit more tomorrow. Thanks for all the responses!
Spatialking,
I have a Mcintosh pre in front of a Mc power amp (300x2)driving the front and a Cerwin Vega (2800x1)driving 2-Electro Voice EVX 180's. In my apinion,you do'nt need a reel good amp for bass. The bass is tight hard hitting and the Mc run very cool because it's not driving any bass.By the way,I use a E.V. 2 way active X-over that has a sub out.I bought the class H amp new for around $450.
It costs a lot more to have the Mc serviced and I bet I won't have to have the Mc serviced for a long time because it's not driving the bass. If I blow the C.V. it's no big deal. Just buy a new one. Take care,Bill
Kijanki: Sometimes I write in the manner I speak rather than write in a more coherent manner. As an Electrical Engineer, I know the difference between Watts and Kilowatts. I apologize for not being more clear. Frankly, I wish the station broadcast in the MegaWatt range, at least the signal would be a lot stronger here. My favorite Jazz station is privately funded - their broadcast is so limited I can only listen to it clearly in Silicon Valley. East of the hills in the East Bay, their signal is very limited. Sigh...

High Frequency noise is "easy" to filter out within a band of frequencies. However, as the bandwidth increases, filters become more difficult to design and thus noise become more difficult to eliminate. When you consider you also have to filter electromagnetic noise as well as electrostatic and conducted, and the fact our noise spectrum now extends into the GHz range, it is no longer a trivial task.

Do understand that any noise spikes created by the diodes in a linear power supply is insignificant in comparison to the noise created by diodes and components in a switching power supply or class D design. This doesn't mean anything with a switching power supply is bad, but it does mean more engineering work has to be done to eliminate the resultant noise that comes along with it. Also note that this diode "switching noise" in a linear amplifier is actually the transformer radiating, not the diode. But, again, this noise is insignificant in comparison to the noise created by a switching power supply of comparable quality.

Class D amps grossly violate the KISS principal, but it is being widely embraced because most of us who have a multichannel 300W+ per channel Class D amps couldn't afford it if it was Class AB and certainly couldn't afford to operate it, much less buy it, if it was pure Class A. This is in addition to the fact that Class D makes higher power, battery operated personal stereos possible.

Given a fixed amount of money to spend, choosing a Class D amp for the midrange and upper frequencies would be my last choice over a good tube or Class AB solid state design. I do believe it is much more difficult to design an equivalent sounding Class D amp to a Class AB design.

Tgrisham: I agree with you on implementation. This Marantz amp I have had a sticker price in the 2000+ dollar range. I don't remember exactly, I would have to look at the receipt if I still have it, I am thinking it was around 2400. I bought it at 60% off due to store closure and the fact it was only four channels and not six made it hard to sell. Clearly, it isn't a cheap design - even though it is Class D it still weighs over 60 pounds. It is possible that I have a bad amplifier but I am more inclined to believe I have an implementation problem of some sort here at the house. A Class D amplifier design engineer I know now works at National Semiconductor, I think I will look him up tomorrow and discuss this noise problem with him.

Bill: I agree, the use of an amplifier as a subwoofer only makes the choice of amps much more easy. For one thing, it has only a very limited range of frequencies to reproduce and any nonlinearites created by producing 80% of the power in music is not fed to the upper octaves where your ear is most sensitive.

In addition, designing a subwoofer only amplifier is easier in that more feedback can be used without the resultant hardness through the midrange. The additional feedback increases the damping factor which usually improves the bass and the limited frequency range of the bass frequencies means upper bandwidth can be sacrificed for the increase in feedback to maintain stability.

Unfortunately, history has shown it is more difficult to sell a standalone, subwoofer only amplifier. Although once installed in the subwoofer cabinet, they seem to be selling quite well!
However, when not listening to the FM radio, the amp sounds perfectly wonderful! I had some classical music on last night - piano, horns, and violins - and the sound was truly amazing!