volume vs presence

Jaffa_777

>>I am reluctant for obvious reasons to go out and spend huge amounts of money on cables. I can't really see for the value for money in exotic cables sorry. Can you really hear that much difference for the money spent?>>

In my system? Easily. In my receiver driven mini HT bedroom system? Sure.

I'm with the poster who says Presence = They are here, you are there. I'd say there is more to it than just realizing info in the 2-6K freq range. Most any speaker out there can reproduce freqs from 2-6K.

My idea on presence or immediacy, or even palpable, equates more to the resolution and detail therein, rather than to be as simplistic as I read above and merely stating some portion of the range allows for it.

Maybe too, you meant to use some other word instead. I don't know.

Feeling the music comes from pressure. Pressure and resolution. Personally, I've never felt a pick come off a string, nor would i WANT TO. i CAN HEAR IT THOUGH AND THAT'S PART OF MY ARGUMENT FOR DEFINITION AND DETAIL being more important than merely reproducing part of the bandwidth. It's more HOW that part is rendered.

I feel you do not have sufficient enough detail and delineation presently in your system.... SPL aside.

Loud doesn't equate to presence.

I've heard systems which while at quite modest listening levels produced that "Can I have your autograph?" illusion. Trust me on that. No kidding.

Maybe somewhere out there is a system that uses zip wire for speaker cables, Radio Shack interconnects, and OEM power cables which can provide the aforementioned 3D illusion, but I doubt it seriously.

If you take some time to look through the various posted systems here, you should also note the cabling, conditioning, and room treatments. I think you'll see what I mean.

Exotic to me means super expensive. Like $2K & up for a pair of ICs, or a power cord... not 300 - 700 dollars. 'Course, even 300 can be hard to swallow if you haven't tried out anything like it before... so you wouldn't know... and you apparently don't. I do. I didn't at one point, but I did, and NOW I do know their impact and I know their importance.

System performance is the whole, global, effect it produces. AS it takes more for a race car to go fast than simply a great engine, so too does a stereo system need all it's areas addressed to be a great performer.

So, if you want to feel the music, go for loud... if you want to gain the illusion you are there or they are in your room, it's only going to happen when your rig is quite resolute, defined, and capable of capturing all the audio cues in the recording... and as well, the recording itself will play a big part.

Smooth, ain't gonna do it. Been there. Done that.

The key, if there even is one, is too much of a good thing is indeed, too much. Too much articulation in a rig can come off as sterile or analytical, and quickly fatiguing. Briefly though it can be stunning. Finding that line in between those two results is the ticket and accounts alone for how eleusive it can be to achieve.

I don't mean to sound condescending but keeping close to a budget, or constrained by one will prevent many from attaining more than just good to great sounding systems. I know this all too well. It's taken me 3 rigs, and nearly 7 years to get where I'm at today... for someone else, it would take the time to write the check.

It will always come to this: Just how much do you want how much? Affordability only means more or less time needed, to do it. I get the notion you want it, so if you keep an open mind as to the whole of the affair here, you'll be well served. If not, it will be a more arduous and lengthy journey.

Everything matters... not just the stuff we can plug into the wall. hell, even the walls matter.

Check out the Cable Company and try renting some of the stuff from them... it will be an ear opening event... I guarantee!

Blindjim, thanks for your open, detailed and frank response. No I don't have the check book handy, nor the credit card. My ears want the best but my wallet will take years to afford it. As you said, fate has bitten me and it looks like I am heading down this path. I am a music lover first, a musician second, and a stereophile last. Its not about the gear for me, its just the music.

Its good to talk to people who have been their too. So how far does the rabbit hole go? Thats the feeling I am getting!

I second OjGalli's excellent posts - the only way 85 db SPL average would cause ringing is if it is continuous loud such as Metallica or other badly compressed stuff. If teh music has dynamic range then 85 db should not cause ringing unless you haave an auditory problem and already have damaged your ears....

Jaffa_777

Then we are more alike than different. I was a musician... playing horns for some years. Do love music. Not an aduiophile though... as I don't think I meet some of the criteria 100%.

So it'll merely take you time, as it has me.

I also think maybe... just maybe... your room is playing a part in that irritating issue following listening sessions... especially if it's empty, or scantily adorned, as there'll be plenty of reflections.

Are there echoes? Slap your hands together and listen for the repeats.... True too, 80db or around there isn't sufficient pressure levels to harm most peoples hearing.

Lots of threads here about handling those issues on the cheap which are quite effective and not hard to do.

I think the important thing is that you simply do what you can when you can... and as much as possible enjoy the music as often as possible.

At some point, now or after you go get them better speakers, do check out power cords as that aspect alone can really alter and/or improve the outcome of your components performance results.

Hope things work out for you sooner than things did for me.

"Hey Rich, I was thinking about what I was missing, and its the intial attack of the front, upwards curve of the sound. I can hear the guitar being played, but I want to feel the pluck on the string before the note sounds. The twang and percussive effect of the double bass player digging into a string."

Hi Jaffa,

Absolutely, that's a good goal, and just to summarize; your goal was to feel and enjoy the Music better, at normal listening levels without turning up the volume excessively high. You said your room was 5 meters x 6 meters which is equal to 16.5 Ft. x 19.8 Ft., which is a pretty decent sized listening room. I know that you would also like to; feel the attack and pluck of the Guitar, the thwack of the Drums, and the twang of the Double Bass, as you so eloquently stated above.

Well, just to put some of this into perspective for you, because there is certainly a lot of good information here, that can be very overwhelming for a new comer. You could certainly buy cables, and power cords, and room treatments and it all helps tremendously, and I mean that sincerely..., it really does and I have all of it as well. Even buying larger amps will primarily allow you to make it louder, and yes there is also the usual tighter bass, and other audiophile benefits, etc, etc..

If I buy a new suit, I may feel and look better, but I'm not suddenly going to become 6.5 Ft. tall

So..., to get the sound that you want, in that size room, you have to move a lot of air and excite the air in the room.

I understand that you are using very good, but "Small Studio Monitor Speakers."

As far as I know, there's are only a few ways to accomplish your goals:

1) Turn the volume all the way up, as you're doing, to raise the SPL in the room until it's uncomfortable.

2) Add one Subwoofer and introduce more problems and then we could start another thread on that one.

3) Buy two subwoofers and pray.

4) Add a center channel speaker, surround speakers, a processor, equalizer, more power cords, clutter up the room more and call it a Home Theater.

5) Move your Monitors into a smaller room in the house and enjoy them there.

6) Buy Larger Floor-Standing Speakers that moves more air at a lower volume, so that you may appreciate; a more involving transient attack of the leading instruments, without destroying that silky smooth sound that you so enjoy.

Oh, one more thing...., if you buy larger speakers, then you may need larger amps, and better cables, and fatter power cords, and more accessories, and max out your credit and take out a loan, and then, and only then, are you an Audiophile...

Now, my friend..., you really do have a lot of difficult decisions to make ; )

Enjoy and Happy Listening,
Rich